Pheonix Thread

[Lauravonsmurf]

Hey, if you ever need eggs, let me know. I am usually overrun with eggs!

Well we do need eggs... so Cost? We are trying to figure out what we are doing right and wrong with mail order eggs and being new to incubators. Found the incubating egg threads... so reading through those... we have had a few hatch out of the other two machines other breeds, but also chicks die after starting to pip... and no action at all on some. I assisted two Oriental Game Fowl to hatch or they would have died. So far I think we rested and set some eggs wrong from shipping issues... so will do things different there... those never hatched and did not develop correctly but we also have one incubator running very humid, so trying to work out that issue. Getting a thing to monitor inside incubator, going to test out that. If we like it buy more for other machines.... trying to figure out which digital scale next... so we can weight the eggs as suggested at candling... next better candling tech... trying to improve hatch rates from none and on the different breeds all combined as of right now 5 out of a couple dozen eggs. Mailed eggs were all packed great... so that was not issue. Learning curve.

 

[flowerfaeiry]

Well we do need eggs... so Cost? We are trying to figure out what we are doing right and wrong with mail order eggs and being new to incubators. Found the incubating egg threads... so reading through those... we have had a few hatch out of the other two machines other breeds, but also chicks die after starting to pip... and no action at all on some. I assisted two Oriental Game Fowl to hatch or they would have died. So far I think we rested and set some eggs wrong from shipping issues... so will do things different there... those never hatched and did not develop correctly but we also have one incubator running very humid, so trying to work out that issue. Getting a thing to monitor inside incubator, going to test out that. If we like it buy more for other machines.... trying to figure out which digital scale next... so we can weight the eggs as suggested at candling... next better candling tech... trying to improve hatch rates from none and on the different breeds all combined as of right now 5 out of a couple dozen eggs. Mailed eggs were all packed great... so that was not issue. Learning curve.

Improper temp and humidity are usually to blame. Add at least two separate calibrated thermometers and hygrometers, run for a few days or a week. You can google for easy instructions on how to calibrate them. If you haven’t read it yet, the best hatching info is from Sally Sunshine here on BYC. It’s about every bit of info you could ever need!
Full incubators hatch better than fewer eggs, lol true!

 

[Michael99]

Sadly the egg developed but did not hatch... after the incubator came we moved the egg to it, and everything seemed okay till the end. Total failure to hatch all eggs and the longtailed egg when we cracked it open had a fully developed chick, just dead... bummer. We really think the issue is with incubator... we purchased 2 other ones completely different... eggs are hatching in those, incubator #1 has no way to accurately monitor humidity. So we need to DIY some improvements to it... but number 2 and 3 are way easier to monitor adjust and chicks are hatching. We reordered a longtail egg... and some phoenix chicks we ordered from a hatchery showed, sadly one died... but the rest are doing great so 5 pheonix, 2 white and the other 3... silver and red maybe.

It happens. I wouldn't expect good hatch rates on shipped eggs anyways as normally the air sack is broken, which results in a chick being unable to hatch and dying in shell (which seems like what happened to your's). Bantam eggs are especially vulnerable.

If an egg dies in development, it is usually due to bacteria which can penetrate the egg and kill the embryo (which is why it's so important to keep a clean incubator). If eggs die during hatching it's usually due to a detached air sack (the embryo can develop, but usually won't hatch as they essentially wind up suffocating) or high levels of inbreeding. If you're open to suggestions, something that helped my hatch rates was spraying them with hydrogen peroxide. I originally got the idea from a youtube video and apparently, it oxygenates the eggs and also sanitizes them without removing the necessary film on the egg that stops it from drying out. It just about doubled my hatch rates, so I highly recommend!

 

[Michael99]

Another really important thing is to have the incubator full of eggs (this helps to regulate temperature), and run it for at least 24 hours before putting eggs in to make sure it is stable. Also, when eggs get to lockdown, don't open the incubator until 3 days after the 1st chick has hatched. If eggs are suddenly exposed to cold or dry air, it can shrink wrap the sack around the chick and it will be unable to hatch without assistance and will likely die as a result.

 

[Lauravonsmurf]

Thanks for the advice everyone... I am currently trying to digest the thread by Sally Sunshine... it’s a lot of info, great info but a lot... but the info on the egg sack confirms what I see in the partially grown eggs that just up and died and never matured, saddle I think it’s called the shape when candled. Wow on the hydrogen peroxide... going to hit YouTube... was there a dilution ratio. I was already thinking they needed to be sprayed before being put in... just wasn’t sure best solution. The temp/hygrometer device, ordered one to try out in an incubator... ultimately I will need for all three machines, so trying to figure out best designs for different incubators. Do you all weigh the eggs? And if so what sort of scale should I get?

 

[Michael99]

Thanks for the advice everyone... I am currently trying to digest the thread by Sally Sunshine... it’s a lot of info, great info but a lot... but the info on the egg sack confirms what I see in the partially grown eggs that just up and died and never matured, saddle I think it’s called the shape when candled. Wow on the hydrogen peroxide... going to hit YouTube... was there a dilution ratio. I was already thinking they needed to be sprayed before being put in... just wasn’t sure best solution. The temp/hygrometer device, ordered one to try out in an incubator... ultimately I will need for all three machines, so trying to figure out best designs for different incubators. Do you all weigh the eggs? And if so what sort of scale should I get?

Anytime! And I don't weigh the eggs (I've never really heard of anyone doing that), but if they're older than 10 days or feel lighter than they should I do a float test, which is basically putting them in a container full of water and if they float or if they stand on the narrow side of the egg then they've dried out too much and won't be able to hatch, so I throw them out.

Also, on the air sack, you can candle them and see if it's detached before incubating. If it moves with the egg (a healthy air sack will be firmly planted at the top of the wide end of the egg), then it is detached and likely won't be viable. I have heard though that sometimes people can still get them to hatch if they leave them for a day or two standing with the narrow side of the egg facing down. But again with shipped eggs it's something that can't really be avoided, but shipped eggs with an intact air sack can still hatch.

And with the humidity, I don't really worry about until lockdown. They don't have to be super humid before that and they're supposed to dry out a bit. I think if you were to just fill the water trays at the bottom before going into lockdown it should be fine.

 

[Michael99]

Some of the boys. We finally have some warmer dry weather but the wind has been awful so they aren’t taking the best pics.
View attachment 2141217View attachment 2141218View attachment 2141219View attachment 2141228

Looking good! I love the coloration on the first one! Do you know what he is? He looks like he could be splash red duckwing, but I'm not entirely sure.

I'll have to take some more recent pictures of some of mine. I've hatched out a boatload of chicks so far this year (probably around 120 so far), so I'm excited to see how those develop!

 

[flowerfaeiry]

Thanks for the advice everyone... I am currently trying to digest the thread by Sally Sunshine... it’s a lot of info, great info but a lot... but the info on the egg sack confirms what I see in the partially grown eggs that just up and died and never matured, saddle I think it’s called the shape when candled. Wow on the hydrogen peroxide... going to hit YouTube... was there a dilution ratio. I was already thinking they needed to be sprayed before being put in... just wasn’t sure best solution. The temp/hygrometer device, ordered one to try out in an incubator... ultimately I will need for all three machines, so trying to figure out best designs for different incubators. Do you all weigh the eggs? And if so what sort of scale should I get?

Correct temp and humidity are vital, and most gauges are not accurate and can change. The best thermometers are the metal probe type, it fits perfectly in the vent hole of the Styro incubators, and it can be easily calibrated. Just about any hygrometer can be calibrated also. Do calibrate them before each hatch.
I clean my incubators before and after each hatch. I soak the styro incubators in bleach, it doesn’t deteriorate the foam at all, they are a good ten years old now and still going strong lol. The plastic type incubators should be as easy. The cabinet gets a good wiping down when I can, it stays running so I do my best after each hatch to wipe it down.
I tried weighing, but I prefer to not handle the eggs so much, in fact, my best hatched are not candled at all until day 18. But a gram scale is pretty cheap, and eggs need to lose about +-13% of their weight. I tend to go by air cell size to determine if my humidity is on track. I also incubate at 30-35%, works well for me.
Shipped eggs are always a challenge. If you receive eggs that are only 3-4 days old, you will have much better luck. The air cells are very small so they don’t dislodge as easily. So many people think it’s ok to collect eggs for a week or more and then ship because it’s fine to hatch 2 week old eggs. When hatching your own eggs that is true, but the shipping is so damaging to larger air cells that it hugely reduces their viability. A good question to ask any breeder is, how many hens do they have laying. Someone collecting from 2-3 hens will be shipping your dozen+ with much larger air cells than someone collecting from 12+ hens. I can easily collect a dozen or more eggs in one day, so I know my eggs are fresh when shipped. There is always the disgruntled postal worker that drop kicks the box marked fragile, that is not the norm tho. And packaging can make or break (literally) a good hatch.
I rest eggs for 24 hours without turning, then set for 24-48 hours without turning to help re-set the air cell. No candling until day 18, as they are too fragile to handle, in my opinion. If I do, I just hold the light to the eggs without picking them up. Air cell development is all you really need to see. I used to hatch upright in an egg carton, but I’m finding they do better when laid on the side at lockdown.
There’s a lot of trial and error involved in hatching, but each time we learn something new and it does get better! Now I’ve given you too much info lol

 

[flowerfaeiry]

Looking good! I love the coloration on the first one! Do you know what he is? He looks like he could be splash red duckwing, but I'm not entirely sure.

I'll have to take some more recent pictures of some of mine. I've hatched out a boatload of chicks so far this year (probably around 120 so far), so I'm excited to see how those develop!

Yes, I believe he is red splash from a golden splash over blue gold. I have a hen to match! I do love his color but he has way too much yellow in his earlobes and legs. I’m getting a breeding pen ready for them now.

You are really going for the gold! It’s the only away to get anywhere fast with this breed. I really slowed down, semi-retired but just can’t seem to stop!. Each hatch brings new possibilities!

 

[Michael99]

Yes, I believe he is red splash from a golden splash over blue gold. I have a hen to match! I do love his color but he has way too much yellow in his earlobes and legs. I’m getting a breeding pen ready for them now.

You are really going for the gold! It’s the only away to get anywhere fast with this breed. I really slowed down, semi-retired but just can’t seem to stop!. Each hatch brings new possibilities!

Truth!! The more you hatch, the more likely you are to see something you like!

I feel you, I'd say don't stop so long as you can physically keep going! I'm 21 and plan on having these birds in my 80's (and hopefully I'll have made some improvements along the way!).