Phoenix bantams!

[Countrypunk92]

I do not see much about Phoenix or Onagadori on here, So, I am making a thread for Bantams and standards! Here are my Silver Duckwing Phoenix bantams. I also have black breasted red Phoenix bantams!

 

[fowlsessed]

what is onagadori?

 

[Countrypunk92]

Quote:
Ill get a pic of one, But the Phoenix is bred from it, It looks just like one but grow tail feathers and hackles over 20 feet!

 

[Countrypunk92]

http://www.feathersite.com/Poultry/CGP/Phoen/BRKOnag.html

 

[Soli]

Here's the Phoenix thread. Lots of info on onagadori and related traits as well:

https://www.backyardchickens.com/forum/viewtopic.php?id=273550

 

[extraordinaryfowl]

Quote:
Onagadori were developed in the 1600's in Japan, for their extraordinary tail feathers which were used on the helmets and spears of soldiers when they paraded. The breed was developed mainly from the Shokoku, and was selected for it's non-molting, continuously and fast growing tail, saddle and covert feathers. The longest ever grown (by using the Japanese "tomebako" method) was well over 20 feet. In Japan they are in BB red, Silver, White and Gohiki (a sort of golden).

We have impure Onagadori here in America. When they were first brought to the states only roosters were brought and so game hens were used to breed them. Therefore no Onagadori here in the states is pure, but Cy Hyde has John Kriner Jr's stock, which is arguably the most pure strain of Onagadori in America that carries no chronic illness.

Hope that answers your question!

 

[dvang3]

Wow you have really nice phoenixes,
do you sell eggs?

Thank you,
Dou Vang

 

[Boggy Bottom Bantams]

Onagadori were developed in the 1600's in Japan, for their extraordinary tail feathers which were used on the helmets and spears of soldiers when they paraded. The breed was developed mainly from the Shokoku, and was selected for it's non-molting, continuously and fast growing tail, saddle and covert feathers. The longest ever grown (by using the Japanese "tomebako" method) was well over 20 feet. In Japan they are in BB red, Silver, White and Gohiki (a sort of golden).

We have impure Onagadori here in America. When they were first brought to the states only roosters were brought and so game hens were used to breed them. Therefore no Onagadori here in the states is pure, but Cy Hyde has John Kriner Jr's stock, which is arguably the most pure strain of Onagadori in America that carries no chronic illness.

Hope that answers your question!

Actually David Rogers birds kick Cy's rear. His are actually bred from a pure onagadori hen to create his line. Cy, while he has great birds and are of onagadori decent, they are like 80 years old from the original crossings. Most all onagadori traits have been lost in the various out crossing since then. You can still get a few non molters out of his line, but most molt annually to every two years just like a normal phoenix any more. I have several birds from Cy here, and they are very nice phoenix, but that's all you can honestly call them any more, phoenix.

David on the other hand knows anything and every thing about the breed and has dedicated his efforts to solely selecting and breeding exclusively for onagadori traits. The results show. While he still wont call them onagadori, they are pretty much as close as you can get
His primary male is between 8-10 feet already and still going strong. Cy's birds just can no longer compare to what David has going.
It's not just feather length, leg color, feather type, multiple feathering, etc all are what make onadadori different from phoenix.
I believe it's like 11 genes in the tail alone they have to carry to be a true bird, each grouping of feathers has to have rapid growth, non molting, and multiple feathering, the type has to be very fine, thin and soft as well.... Bunch to it other than just a long tail.

For any interested, Davids birds can be seen on Onagadori.net

And yes, in the Sticky section of this forum, there is a 100+ page thread for phoenix, lots of nice pics and info on them, feel free to check it out, and keep this one going as well

 

[extraordinaryfowl]

Actually David Rogers birds kick Cy's rear. His are actually bred from a pure onagadori hen to create his line. Cy, while he has great birds and are of onagadori decent, they are like 80 years old from the original crossings. Most all onagadori traits have been lost in the various out crossing since then. You can still get a few non molters out of his line, but most molt annually to every two years just like a normal phoenix any more. I have several birds from Cy here, and they are very nice phoenix, but that's all you can honestly call them any more, phoenix.

David on the other hand knows anything and every thing about the breed and has dedicated his efforts to solely selecting and breeding exclusively for onagadori traits. The results show. While he still wont call them onagadori, they are pretty much as close as you can get
His primary male is between 8-10 feet already and still going strong. Cy's birds just can no longer compare to what David has going.
It's not just feather length, leg color, feather type, multiple feathering, etc all are what make onadadori different from phoenix.
I believe it's like 11 genes in the tail alone they have to carry to be a true bird, each grouping of feathers has to have rapid growth, non molting, and multiple feathering, the type has to be very fine, thin and soft as well.... Bunch to it other than just a long tail.

For any interested, Davids birds can be seen on Onagadori.net

And yes, in the Sticky section of this forum, there is a 100+ page thread for phoenix, lots of nice pics and info on them, feel free to check it out, and keep this one going as well

Where did David get the original hen? Did he import it himself? And also, this isn't arguing, I just honestly don't understand why people call Cy's birds Phoenix? Cy's are pure Onagadori crossed or "graded" with some kind of game in the 30's which are now his standards. (I know his bantams do contain phoenix.) But I thought Phoenix were developed in Germany with particular crosses to the Onagadori? So is any Onagadori crossed with any kind of game a Phoenix? Or is an Onagadori without the non molting gene genetically and officially a Phoenix? Again, not at all starting a fight or anything, just curious. Thanks, MW

 

[pokey]

Quote:
Ill get a pic of one, But the Phoenix is bred from it, It looks just like one but grow tail feathers and hackles over 20 feet!

Please don't think you will get birds from a hatchery or anywhere that you will achieve a 20 ft tail from. That's a marketing ad to sell birds and pretty much like hatcheries calling ameracaunas as araucanas.it takes far more dedication to grow out tails on birds than most people can do or are willing to do. And as already stated onagadori are a separate breed.but educate yourself to the difference and read all you can, learning about the differences has been very interesting for me. Good luck with your birds.