Picking the right dewormer

[Duckfarmer1]

I read another thread and it made me realize that my chickens need deworming now? Goats get herbs, rabbits get meds...I read on the net a ton of brands....first..there are no outward signs of worms...but I don’t want there to be....we have 12 hens,1 rooster,5 cockerels and 2 pullets..the little ones are in a different pen....we’d prefer not to take them to the vet unless necessary...we have over 100 animals on a hobby farm...ok..so I read old threads, that were..highly spirited to say the least as to when to deworm, if to do it, etc...I want to do it...I want a good medicine for egg layers not meat birds but at cost effective price...the net had sooo many ranges how do you know what to pick? Thank you for input

 

[21hens-incharge]

The best way is to know WHAT you are dealing with IF they even have worms.

A fecal float test will identify IF there are even worms present and WHAT kind of worms they are.

I gather fresh droppings from several birds and mix well. That is what my vet checks for me.
By mixing it I am paying for one year and getting a read on the flock not just one bird.

My vet charges $45 for a fecal float test.
My vet does not treat birds but will run a float test on bird droppings.

 

[EggSighted4Life]

.first..there are no outward signs of worms

Don't treat what you don't have, it isn't the cheapest, not cost effective AT ALL, or best for your animals or the environment... Get a float and find our YOUR species and load count, make SURE you are using the right dewormer for what you have IF you need to treat. It cost $28 at my vet who does see birds (I also use the group collection method and is considered acceptable by the vet). I have seen it cheaper for mail away services. And with so many animals, maybe consider investing in a microscope to run your own floats! There are tons of tutorials on line.

For what it's worth... I had symptoms (in a chicken) everyone will SWEAR is worms... muddy bumm, diarrhea sometimes yellow and frothy... from 1 gal only. A float confirmed she was parasite free and it was a personal issue for THAT bird. But if I followed the worm often folks... I would be giving small amounts of poison to all my birds for no reason, withholding eggs and so on, plus the worm medication expense and the time and effort spent administering it to all the animals. Float have prevented useless treatment for my crew for over 10 years now! Of course... YOUR load may be different than mine!

Only large round worms and tape worms may ever be seen in the droppings under heavy load. All other species will stay in the intestines and only their microscopic oocysts (eggs) will pass in droppings to never be seen. So many things can effect YOUR load... including your wildlife load, stock density, soil type, weather pattern, and personal husbandry/ waste removal practices.

It seems as though everyone has their opinion about worming. Mine is that you CANNOT go wrong getting a float first... maybe a couple times a year until you become familiar with YOUR load... and if appropriate MAYBE then plan a treatment schedule and remember when possible alternate medications and always follow through with the full course to prevent building resistance in the parasites.

And while we are at it... please don't forget to check for external parasites. Doing so after dark with a flashlight will give you the best overall picture. Part feathers below vent and on abdomen and look for crawlies running away, angry red skin, or dried "mud" clumps (nits/eggs) stuck on bases of feathers. This scenario is the opposite of worms for me... in that folks swear they don't have them and have never seen any but sooo many times after discovering how to best search, they discover they do need to treat. My friendliest hen that sits on my lap regularly and lets me inspect would have me thinking I never faced them. And after hours inspection of other flock members told a different story. And even after taking one bird to the vet to confirm or deny... and was denied... the same day I came home and inspected another bird who was leaving and was loaded... they don't all have the same bathing/foraging habits or immune systems.

Float first... or before and after treating with "herbs" to verify need and efficacy of selected treatment (please share result if you do!)... in ALL animals including, buns and goats. I have or have had all of them... Buns, goats, ducks, chickens, turkeys, dogs, and pigs...

Hope this gives you some food for thought and good information instead of just causing more confusion!

 

[Duckfarmer1]

Don't treat what you don't have, it isn't the cheapest, not cost effective AT ALL, or best for your animals or the environment... Get a float and find our YOUR species and load count, make SURE you are using the right dewormer for what you have IF you need to treat. It cost $28 at my vet who does see birds (I also use the group collection method and is considered acceptable by the vet). I have seen it cheaper for mail away services. And with so many animals, maybe consider investing in a microscope to run your own floats! There are tons of tutorials on line.

For what it's worth... I had symptoms (in a chicken) everyone will SWEAR is worms... muddy bumm, diarrhea sometimes yellow and frothy... from 1 gal only. A float confirmed she was parasite free and it was a personal issue for THAT bird. But if I followed the worm often folks... I would be giving small amounts of poison to all my birds for no reason, withholding eggs and so on, plus the worm medication expense and the time and effort spent administering it to all the animals. Float have prevented useless treatment for my crew for over 10 years now! Of course... YOUR load may be different than mine!

Only large round worms and tape worms may ever be seen in the droppings under heavy load. All other species will stay in the intestines and only their microscopic oocysts (eggs) will pass in droppings to never be seen. So many things can effect YOUR load... including your wildlife load, stock density, soil type, weather pattern, and personal husbandry/ waste removal practices.

It seems as though everyone has their opinion about worming. Mine is that you CANNOT go wrong getting a float first... maybe a couple times a year until you become familiar with YOUR load... and if appropriate MAYBE then plan a treatment schedule and remember when possible alternate medications and always follow through with the full course to prevent building resistance in the parasites.

And while we are at it... please don't forget to check for external parasites. Doing so after dark with a flashlight will give you the best overall picture. Part feathers below vent and on abdomen and look for crawlies running away, angry red skin, or dried "mud" clumps (nits/eggs) stuck on bases of feathers. This scenario is the opposite of worms for me... in that folks swear they don't have them and have never seen any but sooo many times after discovering how to best search, they discover they do need to treat. My friendliest hen that sits on my lap regularly and lets me inspect would have me thinking I never faced them. And after hours inspection of other flock members told a different story. And even after taking one bird to the vet to confirm or deny... and was denied... the same day I came home and inspected another bird who was leaving and was loaded... they don't all have the same bathing/foraging habits or immune systems.

Float first... or before and after treating with "herbs" to verify need and efficacy of selected treatment (please share result if you do!)... in ALL animals including, buns and goats. I have or have had all of them... Buns, goats, ducks, chickens, turkeys, dogs, and pigs...

Hope this gives you some food for thought and good information instead of just causing more confusion!

Hi. I hop you read more of my posts! Couple questions. You put the word herbs in quotes. I’m not a hippy dippy. And I use traditional meds myself. But I have been told by the goat forum people that herbs are better for goat s because they build up immunity to meds. Etc. but we use meds on rabbits and other animals. So do you recommend meds or herbs. I have vent checked my ducks because they love me and are tame. We rescued the older 12 chickens. Not sure their ages from a farmer that was sent to jail for animal neglect. Chickens is feels they have probably never been worked. We have been eating and giving away eggs all along not knowing. So. These older chickens are not tame at all. Any suggestions on how to do their checks? And the husbandry means my part. Right. That I’m taking good care? But waste removal care. Does that mean going in and raking out the poop? Sorry if I seem nieve. Apparently I am.

 

[Morrigan]

Don't treat what you don't have, it isn't the cheapest, not cost effective AT ALL, or best for your animals or the environment... Get a float and find our YOUR species and load count, make SURE you are using the right dewormer for what you have IF you need to treat.

I agree completely. Why do you think your chickens need deworming? If you are observing signs of illness, then a fecal float is an incredibly valuable tool in figuring out if your birds have worms, and what kind, so you can treat them appropriately. Different dewormers treat different worms. The broadest spectrum wormers on not even approved for use in laying poultry, so you may want to make sure that you really need to use off-label drugs on your laying hens. Also, if your chickens are having health issues with heavy worm loads, there are other things you need to do besides just medicating them. You are going to have to clean up their yard or potentially move them to a new yard. Worm eggs can live for a long time in the soil.

If your hens are all healthy, de-worming them won't accomplish much. If they don't have any worms, the de-wormer will not prevent them from getting worms in the future -- it will only prevent new worms for the few days that the drug remains in their system. Even if they do have a few worms, eliminating those worms will not prevent them from re-acquiring new worms in a few days as the medication wears off, and they go back to their yard, scratching in the same dirt and eating the same bugs.

The reason that your goat owning friends are using herbs is that goat worms have become resistant to most goat dewormers. That same thing will happen in the chicken world if worming medications are over-used.

 

[EggSighted4Life]

The reason that your goat owning friends are using herbs is that goat worms have become resistant to most goat dewormers.

What I don't understand is... can they not also develop resistance to herbs?!

IMO... float, identify, treat, follow up treatment, switch treatment for the next round... if treating the same thing. Alternating effective treatments, and following through fully will help to prevent resistance by parasites. Also parasite resistance my be relative to actual location... example... some coccidia are resistant to Amprolium at certain location and need to be treated with a sulfa drug... not mine. Some parasites have developed resistance to permethrin... not here.

Does that mean going in and raking out the poop?

Yes, parasite eggs can be passed in droppings. Removing as much as possible (and using droppings board in coop)... truly makes a difference in my opinion... with regard to keeping the "load" at a minimum.

You put the word herbs in quotes. I’m not a hippy dippy.

I didn't mean it that way, but I LOVE your attention to detail!

The quotes I suppose was an indicator that I didn't know exactly what herbs were being referred to.

Check out this link and enjoy their site if you get a chance... I think they may also use herbs as goat wormer... but lots of good info there...
https://fiascofarm.com/goats/fecals.htm#Supplies

 

[Morrigan]

What I don't understand is... can they not also develop resistance to herbs?!

I think that it is likely resistance will develop to herbs or any other natural remedy. People are doubtlessly trying the herbs because, for now, it's still an option. The fact that resistance has been developed to some commercial de-wormers in poultry, does not stop people from trying another commercial de-wormer. Ultimately resistance will develop to that dewormer as well. We can stave that day off as long was we can be trying to be careful that we only use them when there is a real need, and we use them correctly.

Look at what as happened to antibiotics in the human population.

 

[Morrigan]

Yes, parasite eggs can be passed in droppings. Removing as much as possible (and using droppings board in coop)... truly makes a difference in my opinion... with regard to keeping the "load" at a minimum.

Good advice. In general, make sure your chickens have plenty of space in their coop and yard. Overcrowding leads to excessive poop build up.

Some worms are also spread through insects, earthworms and slugs. That's another reason why trying to figure out what kind of worms you are dealing with is important.