Pine and Cedar shavings are dangerous

[SleepyOwl]

Yep, I agree, but even with ventilation, chicks sleep with their nose in their bedding (or very close anyway). Older birds usually sleep at least a foot away from the floor, if not several.

Not to mention the chicks have new, delicate little lungs.

I probably won't use aspen either, but even if I do, it will be 3x as much money probably only one or two times. My plan is to use paper towels for the first several days (or until it just isn't working anymore), and then I think I am going to try sand until they move outside. They will be in the house, so I don't have to worry about the sand being cold. But, we all know how plans go. lol
It helps that I don't plan to make this a regular occurance. I live in town, so it isn't like I get to hatch out several babies every year. I will probably only get 6-8 babies every few years. (Of course, that is another "plan" that might change.

)

I tend to over research things. I learn so many different ideas, and then can't make a decision. (Like what breeds I want to get!)
Ok, now I am just babbling.

 

[speckledhen]

Like a new mother, you'll overthink everything with the first batch. As you learn and grown and get more actual experience, you'll relax your grip somewhat.

Hundreds of chicks have grown up here. Haven't lost one to cocci. No bird has ever had a contagious respiratory illness. I started in the very beginning in the coop with my 4 week old chicks on straw when they left the brooder-and realized in a couple of days that it does not absorb moisture or cut down on smell at all. In fact, it smells pretty nasty in short order. Changed to pine shavings and never had one day of issue in almost 7 years, even with day-old chicks.


"Plans" is a dirty word, you know. Life is what happens when you're making other plans and all chicken plans are subject to change, I always say. Best of luck to you.

 

[Beekissed]

Yep, I agree, but even with ventilation, chicks sleep with their nose in their bedding (or very close anyway). Older birds usually sleep at least a foot away from the floor, if not several.

Not to mention the chicks have new, delicate little lungs.

I probably won't use aspen either, but even if I do, it will be 3x as much money probably only one or two times. My plan is to use paper towels for the first several days (or until it just isn't working anymore), and then I think I am going to try sand until they move outside. They will be in the house, so I don't have to worry about the sand being cold. But, we all know how plans go. lol
It helps that I don't plan to make this a regular occurance. I live in town, so it isn't like I get to hatch out several babies every year. I will probably only get 6-8 babies every few years. (Of course, that is another "plan" that might change.

)

I tend to over research things. I learn so many different ideas, and then can't make a decision. (Like what breeds I want to get!)
Ok, now I am just babbling.

I'd much rather see people who research and plan well before they ever get an animal also...it's important to know what you are getting into, what you will need to be successful and how you want to manage your flock.

The problems start at the point at the highlighted text. When it is all said and done on this Earth, you will only know something if you try it for yourself. Books are a great starting point but they aren't the definitive source of all things known or experienced...they too are merely the author's experience or info from a few very controlled studies.

Fortunately~or unfortunately, according to your personality~our backyard is not a controlled situation and has so many variables as to render it useless as a lab...but experiment we must. If we want to find what works in our own little backyard, we have to try things....yes...we may even want to try things that may~ in maybe 1% of birds~ cause respiratory problems.

So far on this forum I've gleaned that we cannot use:

Pine shavings~toxic
Cedar shavings~also toxic
Hay or straw~impacts crops and also fatal...imagine that.
Paper towels~chicks eat them and get...Oh...look, it's "impacted crops" again.
Sand~chicks eat it, fill up on it and then can't eat their food and die of starvation


If I were to believe everything I read in books, mag articles and on this forum, I would be trying to raise my birds suspended in the air so they don't come in contact with anything that could harm them and I'd still be obsessing over the quality of the air in which they were suspended!

Having said all that, I've used pine shavings with absolutely no ill effects and used cedar shavings in small amounts in a very well-ventilated and large chicken house and got a few birds that started wheezing. Those birds were rehomed and the rest of the flock did very well...but I did not repeat the cedar shavings experiment.

Straw or hay never were eaten by any flock I've ever had(maybe penned birds do this? Mine free range, so their crops are already full of grass and such).

Never used paper towels because I have always used pine shavings....never a chick or bird lost all these many years.

Sand? Never tried it.

 

[TonySorrento]

I'd much rather see people who research and plan well before they ever get an animal also...it's important to know what you are getting into, what you will need to be successful and how you want to manage your flock.

The problems start at the point at the highlighted text. When it is all said and done on this Earth, you will only know something if you try it for yourself. Books are a great starting point but they aren't the definitive source of all things known or experienced...they too are merely the author's experience or info from a few very controlled studies.

Fortunately~or unfortunately, according to your personality~our backyard is not a controlled situation and has so many variables as to render it useless as a lab...but experiment we must. If we want to find what works in our own little backyard, we have to try things....yes...we may even want to try things that may~ in maybe 1% of birds~ cause respiratory problems.

So far on this forum I've gleaned that we cannot use:

Pine shavings~toxic
Cedar shavings~also toxic
Hay or straw~impacts crops and also fatal...imagine that.
Paper towels~chicks eat them and get...Oh...look, it's "impacted crops" again.
Sand~chicks eat it, fill up on it and then can't eat their food and die of starvation


If I were to believe everything I read in books, mag articles and on this forum, I would be trying to raise my birds suspended in the air so they don't come in contact with anything that could harm them and I'd still be obsessing over the quality of the air in which they were suspended!

Having said all that, I've used pine shavings with absolutely no ill effects and used cedar shavings in small amounts in a very well-ventilated and large chicken house and got a few birds that started wheezing. Those birds were rehomed and the rest of the flock did very well...but I did not repeat the cedar shavings experiment.

Straw or hay never were eaten by any flock I've ever had(maybe penned birds do this? Mine free range, so their crops are already full of grass and such).

Never used paper towels because I have always used pine shavings....never a chick or bird lost all these many years.

Sand? Never tried it.

SO true, Bee!!!!

I sit here and wonder at times why my birds are doing so well???

 

[woofwoofchick]

Sorry to cause such an uproar! lol I am just passing along info that I've learned from animal professionals. I don't think all the data is out there as to how harmful pine is for animals and people will continue to use it as it's a cheap form of bedding. I for one will never use it as what I've heard about it isn't worth the risk of losing my chicks/hens or making them not feel well.

 

[rikithemonk]

Sorry to cause such an uproar! lol I am just passing along info that I've learned from animal professionals. I don't think all the data is out there as to how harmful pine is for animals and people will continue to use it as it's a cheap form of bedding. I for one will never use it as what I've heard about it isn't worth the risk of losing my chicks/hens or making them not feel well.

There is no uproar. All information has value. I appreciate you sharing what you learned. One day this thread may save someone who is loosing their chicks. That's never a bad thing.

Without knowledge common sense is helpless. Its trivia that gives common sense the tools to function.

Riki

 

[Stacykins]

Pine and cedar shavings are harmful for pocket pets such as rats and hamsters, who always have their nose in the shavings due to how their bodies are built. You can have the best ventilated, wire cage, and those substrates will still cause respiratory problems. The issue is exacerbated for people who keep their rodents in big fish tanks, where there is much less ventilation. Aspen is a safe rodent bedding, as is paper based bedding, too. I know some people who use fleece blankets that they launder regularly for their ratties, too.

But chickens, who are built upright and don't have their face in shavings, are good. Plus a coop should also be well ventilated.

 

[speckledhen]

Sorry to cause such an uproar! lol I am just passing along info that I've learned from animal professionals. I don't think all the data is out there as to how harmful pine is for animals and people will continue to use it as it's a cheap form of bedding. I for one will never use it as what I've heard about it isn't worth the risk of losing my chicks/hens or making them not feel well.

You will never lose a chicken from using good dry pine shavings. You won't. You just won't. Chickens are not rodents, are not mammals, can't go by advice for those animals. Animal professionals, you say-wonder what animal professional who has actually raised chickens has ever had one verifiably die or even become ill from being on good pine shavings? I'd bet my coop not a single one.

What you don't want is to put a green pine tree through your wood chipper and throw those in the coop. You can't do that with aspen or cedar or anything.

What some of you don't realize is that many here could have written one of those books on raising chickens. Our site owner, Nifty-Chicken, actually has co-authored one. There are some true experts here on BYC, not a bunch of fumblers.


ETA: Check out pages 124-125 of "Raising Chickens for Dummies" for bedding options and what not to use as bedding. The #1 and most commonly used bedding option? Pine shavings, of course.

 

[A.T. Hagan]

Pine shavings are probably the single most common form of poultry brooder bedding there is. I've used them myself for many years with I don't know how many hundreds of chicks straight out of the incubator or shipping box onto the shavings. No paper, no towels, nothing but shavings. Never lost a chick to eating them or from fumes.

This is kiln-dried shavings that were DRY coming out of the bag. Never use wet or damp shavings, particularly those that have begun to discolor any more than one should ever use wet hay. Fresh and dry only.

Brooders have to have airflow. Tight, poorly ventilated brooder boxes are asking for trouble no matter what you use for bedding or even no bedding at all. Brooders need good air flow and they need bedding that is dry and absorbent. If the bedding is wet or caked up then change it because wet bedding is an invitation to coccidiosis and possibly respiratory problems brought on by fungal growth.

Fresh, kiln-dried pine shavings are an excellent brooder bedding.

 

[SleepyOwl]

... So far on this forum I've gleaned that we cannot use:

Pine shavings~toxic
Cedar shavings~also toxic
Hay or straw~impacts crops and also fatal...imagine that.
Paper towels~chicks eat them and get...Oh...look, it's "impacted crops" again.
Sand~chicks eat it, fill up on it and then can't eat their food and die of starvation...

LOL I guess what most people should get out of this, is go ahead and use pine shavings. If you see your chicks having issues (which probably won't happen) take them iff the pine and see if it helps.

You are right about the rest, too. I am about to jump in and get my feet wet pretty soon. I am hoping to get some chicks this weekend!!!