PITBULL ATTACK!!!

[nzpouter]

So a wolf pup will not hunt or kill unless its mother teaches it to? Really???

it'll try to hunt, but it will never be successful and most likely die young, that applies to all predators actually... learning how to stalk and kill, some of the lesson will include mum bringing back live prey to the nest/ den.

 

[Triple Willow]

it'll try to hunt, but it will never be successful and most likely die young, that applies to all predators actually... learning how to stalk and kill, some of the lesson will include mum bringing back live prey to the nest/ den.

Sorry but I disagree. That's just like saying that if a hen doesn't teach a chick to find and eat bugs it will never know how to find them, catch them and eat them. Not true. My "pet" dogs know how to go out and hunt down something to eat and do it often just for the fun of it. Nobody taught them.

edited by staff

 

[nzpouter]

 I wasn't just talking about a Pit Bull's killing instinct, but the instinct of all dogs that, when triggered, can and most likely will take over.  Even the very best trained dogs slip from time to time and revert to an instinctive behavior.  Their owners/handlers usually get this behavior under control relatively quickly, but not always.  In the case of a Pit Bull, by the time that behavior is brought back under control, it could be too late, primarily because the owner, like you, chose to ignore the facts about the breed and was unprepared to deal with the behavior.

there you go, that's better... now if you read all my posts from the beginning, you'll realised I have addressed all those issues you mentioned... if you say instinct in ALL dogs, I will easily agree with you but to single out a breed for it, wrong. Now go back to the start and see what I said about the dogs,

"I never said they are run of the mill dogs... not a beginer's dog and not for those who can't control and direct them to be honest.

Luck has nothing to do with it, knowing what to expect from them does."

"I respect the tenacity, the strength and personality of the breed"

"they are raised as a dog and secondly they are not exposed to activities/ environment that'll enforce negative habits..."

as for roaming dogs, there's your answer... why are they allowed to roam? I lost pets from all sorts of dogs, from jack russel, border collies to husky to pointer... any dog will chase and try to catch small prey animals if they are untrained and let to roam. Shoot them, protecting your animals in your property trumps the well being of any roaming predators, not nice but sometimes a neccessity. You can train a dog, but almost impossible to negotiate with neglectful owners.

by the way, I didn't tell you to keep your opinion about my dogs to yourself.... I told you to keep your opinion about other people's dogs to yourself as you don't know how they are raised and trained, you can't simply blame the dogs for their breed (your killer instinct comment).





I find the 2 worst type of dogs owned by people around me are herding breeds and jack russels, they get these types of dogs and never give them enough stimulation and exercise, so you see, as an owner you need to accomodate the breeds you have... and idiot owners comes in every breed of dogs.

 

[nzpouter]

Sorry but I disagree. That's just like saying that if a hen doesn't teach a chick to find and eat bugs it will never know how to find them, catch them and eat them. Not true. My "pet" dogs know how to go out and hunt down something to eat and do it often just for the fun of it. Nobody taught them.

a mother hen will teach it's chicken how to pick up food as well.... did you see my post where it says predators? all species learnt a different way. Your dogs learn from a chase instinct, the kill part is when you let the cahse gone too far and accident happens, they will not do it the first time they caught something but at the end they'll figure it out and since you feed your dogs (I assume) they have the luxury of time to learn this while in the wild they will die early.

 

[nzpouter]

 
That is NOT the natural state of that dog.  Some abusive, neglectful, ignorant fool has butchered this dog into some kind of monster for his/her own amusement.

that's not an apbt, that's an american bully... a breeding project that went too far, an apbt is a smaller slender athletic dog... not a barrel on legs.

 

[Triple Willow]

a mother hen will teach it's chicken how to pick up food as well.... did you see my post where it says predators? all species learnt a different way. Your dogs learn from a chase instinct, the kill part is when you let the cahse gone too far and accident happens, they will not do it the first time they caught something but at the end they'll figure it out and since you feed your dogs (I assume) they have the luxury of time to learn this while in the wild they will die early.

I imagine bugs do consider chickens a predator. LOL What about snakes? They are left on their own from the time they are born or hatch and they are some of the best hunters out there. Nobody taught them. It is 100% instinct. Hunting dogs are not taught how to hunt. No doubt a hunter does some training to make the dog work better to their expectations but they don't teach them to hunt. If that was the case you would have Yorkies hunting quail. It is about instinct.

 

[wyoDreamer]

I imagine bugs do consider chickens a predator. LOL What about snakes? They are left on their own from the time they are born or hatch and they are some of the best hunters out there. Nobody taught them. It is 100% instinct. Hunting dogs are not taught how to hunt. No doubt a hunter does some training to make the dog work better to their expectations but they don't teach them to hunt. If that was the case you would have Yorkies hunting quail. It is about instinct.

There, you just stated the point - "training to make the dog work better". And yes, a hunter does train the dog to hunt - we train it to find game and ignore all the other cool stuff out there that they would love to chase. Wolf/fox/coyote pups all have a natural instinct to chase and catch things. All of their play is to enhance these instincts. But an adult predator needs skill to catch the AMOUNT of prey that they need to survive. How many mice does a fox need to catch each day to feed itself? It needs the SKILLS that are taught by the parents to be able to feed itself and catch enough to raise a litter of pups.

Your dog will instinctively chase squirrels and rabbits - but how many does it actually catch and eat? My husky was very good at catching mice - it was so cool to watch her hunt mice in the snow - but she would have starved to death if she had to live off the amount of prey that she could catch.

Personally, I don't like pits - just not a good looking dog to me and not sure why anyone would want one. I also don't like chihuahuas, lhasa apso, pekingese, chow chow or greyhounds. Meanest dog I ever met was a black lab - but his owner was a no good, sour puss so what do you expect.

People who own pits need to understand they are a strong, muscular dog that need a leader for an owner. All dogs need an owner that is a leader - letting your foo-foo toy poodle jump all over me is not acceptable, even if "He won't hurt you", those little teeth can rip my pants, snag my sweater and puncture my hands and make me bleed. However, pits have a long history of being used as a fighting animal and to deny that your dog has this family history is burying your head in the sand and asking for trouble. If the dog slips - it will be "No, not my dog. He is a sweetie pie." - even when it is caught in the pen, covered in blood, with pony that was ripped to shreds and screaming in pain.

 

[punk-a-doodle]

Problem solving 101 (Classes are free the first time, $500/minute after that):

Scenario #1: "I am hurt/sad/angry/other because dogs that I may or may not have correctly identified the breed of killed my chickens."
Possible Solution:
-"Oh look, there is a whole section of the forum devoted to the many different philosophies and methods on how to handle attacks on livestock. https://www.backyardchickens.com/f/13/predators-and-pests Perhaps I will check there for ideas on how to keep my particular problem from happening again, even if another species entirely should threaten my chickens. Perhaps trying to extrapolate my problem to be an issue with a large and diverse group of people and dogs is not the healthiest coping mechanism".


Scenario #2: "I am concerned that the various bully breeds are large, powerful, and can cause damage or death to people or animals."
Possible Solution:
-"As this is true of everything from cars to guns to horses, I will try to keep a broad and level-headed approach to the subject. I will avoid using over-sensationalized and demeaning terms to make blanket judgments on entire breeds of dogs or groups of people. This help shows that I have genuine concern about the issue and desire to educate people into making safe and well-understood choices, and that I am not just trying to bait people into getting upset. I will avoid presenting personal stories and opinions as general truths, and will provide statistics and research that has no obvious bias when supporting arguments that are presented as factual. Discussing my concerns rather than arguing about them means that people will be more likely to listen to what I have to say, and that I will be more likely to listen to what they have to say. This will lead to better communication and better awareness rather than a locked thread."

 

[nzpouter]

Problem solving 101 (Classes are free the first time, $500/minute after that):

Scenario #1:  "I am hurt/sad/angry/other because dogs that I may or may not have correctly identified the breed of killed my chickens."
Possible Solution: 
-"Oh look, there is a whole section of the forum devoted to the many different philosophies and methods on how to handle attacks on livestock.  https://www.backyardchickens.com/f/13/predators-and-pests  Perhaps I will check there for ideas on how to keep my particular problem from happening again, even if another species entirely should threaten my chickens.  Perhaps trying to extrapolate my problem to be an issue with a large and diverse group of people and dogs is not the healthiest coping mechanism".


Scenario #2:  "I am concerned that the various bully breeds are large, powerful, and can cause damage or death to people or animals."
Possible Solution:
-"As this is true of everything from cars to guns to horses, I will try to keep a broad and level-headed approach to the subject.  I will avoid using over-sensationalized and demeaning terms to make blanket judgments on entire breeds of dogs or groups of people.  This help shows that I have genuine concern about the issue and desire to educate people into making safe and well-understood choices, and that I am not just trying to bait people into getting upset.  I will avoid presenting personal stories and opinions as general truths, and will provide statistics and research that has no obvious bias when supporting arguments that are presented as factual.  Discussing my concerns rather than arguing about them means that people will be more likely to listen to what I have to say, and that I will be more likely to listen to what they have to say.  This will lead to better communication and better awareness rather than a locked thread."

can you please stop making sense... it's quite enjoyable wallowing in hysteria....

 

[nzpouter]

I imagine bugs do consider chickens a predator. LOL What about snakes? They are left on their own from the time they are born or hatch and they are some of the best hunters out there. Nobody taught them. It is 100% instinct. Hunting dogs are not taught how to hunt. No doubt a hunter does some training to make the dog work better to their expectations but they don't teach them to hunt. If that was the case you would have Yorkies hunting quail. It is about instinct.

did you see the part where I say every species learnt in a different way? ahem... hunting dogs ARE taught to hunt.... African hunting dogs included... the instinct all dogs have is the chase instinct, everything involved with killing will be learnt later in their life.