PITBULL ATTACK!!!

[SunnyCalifornia]

My 7 yr old was attacked by a pack of pitbulls today......

This one is coming home with us to be our next flock guard......

Hawks and coyotes beware!

 

[GrumpyolGoat]

Thanks, but I'll give my opinion when and where I please, to include your dogs. My living with them has nothing to do with this conversation and is the typical weak argument proffered by many Pit owners who actually believe they can nurture the dog to be something it's not.

You are correct that this dog is not for someone who cant' control it. I would go further and state it's not for 85% of the population. The breed has its place, but its place is not as common as most people want to believe. It sounds like you realize that your dogs are the natural bred killers I spoke of. You respect that in them and spend the necessary time with them to better control that instinct. A word of advice though my little Kiwi - always carry a break stick with you. You never know when Mother Nature is going to whisper in that dog's ear.

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[punk-a-doodle]

Problem solving 101 (Classes are free the first time, $500/minute after that):

Scenario #1: "I am hurt/sad/angry/other because dogs that I may or may not have correctly identified the breed of killed my chickens."
Possible Solution:
-"Oh look, there is a whole section of the forum devoted to the many different philosophies and methods on how to handle attacks on livestock. https://www.backyardchickens.com/f/13/predators-and-pests Perhaps I will check there for ideas on how to keep my particular problem from happening again, even if another species entirely should threaten my chickens. Perhaps trying to extrapolate my problem to be an issue with a large and diverse group of people and dogs is not the healthiest coping mechanism".


Scenario #2: "I am concerned that the various bully breeds are large, powerful, and can cause damage or death to people or animals."
Possible Solution:
-"As this is true of everything from cars to guns to horses, I will try to keep a broad and level-headed approach to the subject. I will avoid using over-sensationalized and demeaning terms to make blanket judgments on entire breeds of dogs or groups of people. This help shows that I have genuine concern about the issue and desire to educate people into making safe and well-understood choices, and that I am not just trying to bait people into getting upset. I will avoid presenting personal stories and opinions as general truths, and will provide statistics and research that has no obvious bias when supporting arguments that are presented as factual. Discussing my concerns rather than arguing about them means that people will be more likely to listen to what I have to say, and that I will be more likely to listen to what they have to say. This will lead to better communication and better awareness rather than a locked thread."

 

[GrumpyolGoat]

You've been lucky I'd say.

I had a rooster who, until yesterday, was surrounded by my two ACDs, the neighbor's two black labs and my other neighbor's two Pits. Guess which pair killed him?

Don't get me wrong, on a large enough piece of land where rodent control and larger varmint (coyote, badger, raccoon, feral hog, etc.) control are necessary, they're great dogs....because they excel at killing things....which is what they were bred to do.

For hundreds of years, the best killers were selected to be the next generation's sires/dams. It's not the dog's fault that humans bred them to be the best at killing.

It is however the fault of modern day owners who make the false assumption that these are run of the mill dogs. They are not. Such disrespect and ignorance of this breed tends to spawn tragedy.

Just because all dogs are cute when they are puppies does not mean they are all the same.

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[GrumpyolGoat]

for every single one that's been abused and raised the wrong way and end up a biter, you'll have thousands if not tens of thousands who will live their entire live without ever been known by the world...

Riiiiiight.

Trust me, that killer instinct is there just below the surface. All it takes is the right set of circumstances and the appropriate trigger to release it. That could be something such as a rabbit running across the road or a group of small children playing in their yard...who knows? Hell, the dog doesn't even know...all he knows is that once that trigger is tripped, he must kill what tripped it.

You'll see similar behavior in other dogs too. Look at herding dogs like Border Collies or ACDs. With the correct trigger, their instinctive drive to lock on to a target and herd it in one direction or another will kick in. That could be a large ball, a falling leaf or a wayward child. The difference between my dog and your dog is that while mine may respond to his instinct by nipping at the child's heels to drive or push the child in a certain direction, yours will respond to his instinct by trying to rip the child's throat out.

You can't blame a Pitt for being a Pitt. However, owners who refuse to acknowledge the fact that these dogs are locked and loaded guns that require less than most dogs to be set off are setting themselves and those around them up for tragedy.

For whatever reason you have not had any such instances with your dogs...yet. Perhaps you realize your dogs are the fur coated killer buzz saws I've described and you take appropriate precautions to ensure your safety and the safety of those around you. Or, perhaps, as previous postings suggest, you think nurture will always triumph over nature and that you can "love" the Pit Bull out of your Pit Bull.

I'd suggest YOU take note of the powder kegs you've selected as your pets before they explode and cause some harm. The sooner you get serious about the dog and it's capabilities, the better off you AND the dog will be.

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[Triple Willow]

So a wolf pup will not hunt or kill unless its mother teaches it to? Really???

 

[GrumpyolGoat]

Instinct is part of any dog's nature. Just like I said about herding dogs, the right trigger can cause those decades or even centuries of breeding to come to the surface and take over. I wasn't just talking about a Pit Bull's killing instinct, but the instinct of all dogs that, when triggered, can and most likely will take over. Even the very best trained dogs slip from time to time and revert to an instinctive behavior. Their owners/handlers usually get this behavior under control relatively quickly, but not always. In the case of a Pit Bull, by the time that behavior is brought back under control, it could be too late, primarily because the owner was unprepared to deal with the behavior.

As I've already told you, the neighboring Pit Bull Terriers (PBT) invaded my yard, slipped under the gate to my garden and apparently chased my rooster around, eventually killing him. I didn't hear any commotion, but by the time I realized it had happened, it was far too late to do anything other than capture the dogs and call the neighbor to come get them. In retrospect, the hens seem happier that the rooster is gone. He was getting a bit too aggressive with them of late and the dogs probably did me a favor by getting rid of him. Who knows? Maybe the rooster went after them first. If he'd gone inside the coup like the hens did, he'd have survived the incident I'm sure. None of that changes the fact that the dogs shouldn't have been on my property in the first place, but what's done is done.

This was another in a long line of events characterized by these two particular PBTs getting out and roaming the area. From what I've seen, the dogs are not aggressive towards humans. Quite the opposite actually. When I've had to deal with them, they were very affectionate towards me. I'm of the opinion that if they were properly trained and cared for, their escape and behavior problems would probably disappear.

After discovering them in my garden lingering over the carcass of that chicken, I had every right to kill them, but did not. For one thing, I don't hold the dogs responsible for being what they are. Secondly, I don't believe I could have brought myself to actually shoot them (or any other dog for that matter), especially when they trotted up to me with the, "Look what we found!" expression on their faces. I do, however hold their owner 100% responsible. Those dogs should have never been on my property to begin with. I've explained this to my neighbor several times and explained that other residents may be frightened by the dogs (because they are PBTs) and elect to settle the issue by simply killing the dogs, which would be sad. The neighbor explained that efforts will be made, yet again, to keep the dogs in their yard. I've heard that excuse before. We shall see.

Pretty much any dog lover has his/her favorite breed, myself included. But in my experience, PBT owners seem to think that this breed of dog is like any other breed and can be pampered and babied to the point that it will no longer respond to an instinctive drive to kill things. I don't need to own or drive a Ferrari to know that it's a high performance sports car built for speed and maneuverability, and I don't need to own a PBT to know that the breed was established with sole intent of being a pit fighting dog. It's not as if this breed was bred to hunt game or herd livestock and was subsequently hijacked to become a fighting dog. The PBT breed has its very roots in bull baiting and dog fighting. As I've said over and over again, the breed was brought into existence to kill things for sport. The dogs that were allowed to stud were those that exhibited a greater prowess in the killing pit, not those who were more affectionate or slow to attack.

In summation, my problem is not with the dog or the breed, it's with the owners. You should definitely acknowledge that even the sweetest PBT is the descendant of the best pit fighting killers and could potentially respond to that instinct in a negative way. Own the dog, love the dog, train the dog, but always be on guard for that instinct to come rushing to the surface and be prepared to deal with it before someone or another animal gets hurt or killed. Pretending it doesn't exist is reckless.

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[Triple Willow]

The small town I live in has had so many problems with pitbulls and pitbull owners that city codes were put in place making it next to impossible to keep them. The city is a safer place! Several other cities in the area are doing the same thing. One recent example is where a 4 year old child was attacked and I believe its mother also. That happened at a business. I know of several attacks just in the area that I live in. I saw two pitbulls one time trying their best to attack a jogger. He was athletic enough to stay out of their jaws. Had it been somebody else (especially a child or elderly person) it would have been TOO BAD!

In your situation I probably would have shot the dogs. I'm glad you weren't attacked too.

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[GrumpyolGoat]

I suppose if the dogs had acted aggressively towards me, I would have done what was necessary, but I'm very grateful that I didn't have to do that. I've had to put down animals in the past for humane reasons (sickness and injury) and it is one of the worst things I've ever had to do. I certainly didn't want nor would I want to do that with someone's dog.

I have no doubt that virtually any dog, given the proper attention and training, can be made a wonderful companion, but that should NEVER take the place of the reserved caution necessary to own or handle these dogs (or any other dog that exhibits vicious tendencies). These tendencies are more prolific in PBTs due to their breeding and any PBT owner should be aware of it and prepared to deal with it. Ignoring this fact does not make it go away. I'm sure there are some PBT owners out there who are responsible, caring owners. PBTs seem to be popular in my area and the local dog pounds are brimming with abandoned PBTs. I think that is so sad that these dogs, who did nothing wrong, are now left to suffer because some fool thought they looked cool and decided to get one, only to discover their level of commitment was lacking.

Anyone who does this to a dog should be criminally prosecuted for animal abuse in my opinion:

That is NOT the natural state of that dog. Someone has butchered this dog into some kind of monster for his/her own amusement.

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[Triple Willow]

it'll try to hunt, but it will never be successful and most likely die young, that applies to all predators actually... learning how to stalk and kill, some of the lesson will include mum bringing back live prey to the nest/ den.

Sorry but I disagree. That's just like saying that if a hen doesn't teach a chick to find and eat bugs it will never know how to find them, catch them and eat them. Not true. My "pet" dogs know how to go out and hunt down something to eat and do it often just for the fun of it. Nobody taught them.

edited by staff