PLANNED POULTRY GUARDING DOG

[centrarchid]

Wow thanks, I have a friend that has 2 Great Pyrenees with 250+ chickens. I have a lab mix that I would put in with mine for any instant emergencies. Maybe she would alert me if any coyotes came up, plus there is a fifty dollar bounty on them here.

I do not know your dog so hard to make call whether she would be effective against coyotes. Dogs vary greatly in response to coyotes. Some cower, some bark, some are willing to fight and others want to chase coyotes too far. My preference is to be aggressive, give display and make measured approach that will only involve a brief chase. I have seen a few interactions between my dog and local coyotes. They seem to know each other and mark same locations. When a coyotes holds ground Scoob goes after it and at least knocks it down but has not resorted to mauling (coyote in that intance was female, probably young-of-year prior to breeding season). Generally Scoob sort of trotts after coyote escorting it a hundred yards or so off property before going into a scent marking frenzy. Generally neighbors doberman comes out and marks with Scoob. Even Scoob stands a good 6" taller at shoulder than male coyotes so he has major size advantage. I will stress Scoob has much less trouble with coyotes than he does with red foxes. Coyotes generally go around our property and when going through seem to ignore birds in pens apparently knowing Scoob will come to them if birds give alarm. I have not lost any birds to fox since last fall but the buggers still keep coming back and hunting on property. If not for chicken alarm system and Scoob's rapid response some birds would be lost. A point to consider is Scoob seems to key in on alarms of roosters more than juveniles or confined hens.

 

[centrarchid]

LUCY GETTING NIGHT TIME PATROLS IN WITHOUT CAUSING TROUBLE

I just battened down pens for night making so varmints would have to work for eats of juvenile chickens and broody hens on nest. Little Miss Lucy walked in among ground roosting juveniles, even stepping over a few which is like me trying to step over a 75 lb turkey. She made no effort to molest birds which is major development after only three nights of such activity. Scoob required a couple weeks to get to same point. Scoob's lack of interest in such grounded birds very likely helping to speed her training. I do want her to be interested in birds walking about after dark. When Scoob does it is a major aid when I work birds up checking wingbands. Such interest also makes so Scoob can deny great-horned owl eats when bugger knocks tree roosting birds of perch at night.

 

[sargent spurs]

This is my 3 year old lab mix.

 

[centrarchid]

She has more than enough size to whip my coyotes. But is she sneaky enough to deal with king of sneaksters, Mr. Fox.

 

[sargent spurs]

Ya, she deals with the one around here.

 

[centrarchid]

BROODY GAME HEN SCHOOLS PUP ON MESSING WITH BITTIES

Lucy, like pups in general was infatuated with bitties. For most part she could not get to them because of her present size. I wanted to break her of such but the attraction was extreme. What I did to break was release Sallie, a very well know quantity game hen with 2 day old bitties. Lucy noticed bitties and began stalking approach. She did not seem to register Sallie being present. Sallie gave a brief warning trill then ran / flew about 50 feet and proceeded to flog Lucy. Lucy was put on a yelping run immediately where she ran to front door where Sallie basically howered over her even as Lucy crossed threshold into house. Sallie broke off attack and promptly returned to brood. This was repeated a couple more times as day progressed. Lucy figured out she could get relatively close to chicks so long as she did not look directly at them. This was still to her advantage because she like to snort chick feed. Two days later and Lucy no longer pays attention to bitties and now Sallie produces minimal vocal threats at Lucy. This has to be done since Lucy will be exposed to bitties lots later and she will be able to get to them even when in brooder. Training is not yet done with respect to bitties. She now will need to learn to walk stiff-legged among them so as not to step on them. The boisterous puppy play itself can kill, no mouth required. I have no doubt she will pull it off as she learns everything extremely fast. Scoob may even be disciplining her which I initially did not think credible with respect to livestock guarding activities.

 

[centrarchid]

PROMOTING AGGRESSION AGAINST PREDATORS

A potential problem with any LGD is a lack of aggression or at least motivation to express it against predators of concern. Too many dogs, including those belonging to hunting breeds and even typical large LGD breeds simply do not get riled enough to deal with a predator. This can mean something like hawk standing on a chickens back out in pasture does not register as a problem to the dog so dog does nothing. I may have inadvertently enhanced my first dog's interest in such by my own actions. Prior to acquiring Scoob, all poultry pens were within couple hundred feet of front door and arranged to any alarm sounds that might be made by chickens could be heard through bedroom window. I went to the extreme of pulling bed up to open window and slept with my head foot which was closest to window. If chickens made a sound other than a rooster crowing, then I got up to see what was amiss. I also got into habit of going outside every couple hours or so and shined all pens with flashlight. If predator was expected, I even slept in big chair pulled up into front doorway and more than once slept on ground down wind of expected varmints approach. As one can imagine such an arrangement can be challenging for self and spouse. Sleep was not always sound owing to sound of crowing. Mosquitoes, heating and cooling bills where a bit high and neighbors were at high risk of seeing me running about in dark packing a ball-bat and flashlight wearing only underwear. Some neighbors moved out during this time so maybe more than a risk. The real fun was when an actual predator called. I killed way to many opossums by stomping on them to the point some got juicy (got to make certain they were properly dead) and chased raccoons through briar's and even climbed 30 foot trees after a couple wisecrakers that thought they could wait me out and give penned birds another go through wire after I went back inside. There also nothing like the pleasure of a persistent red fox that would yank feathers out of a bird then retreat to just beyond my lite then go after another bird before I could even get to front door. I resolved at that time to get a rifle from brother in Indiana and first dog treated in this thread. For the first six months following acquisition of dog not much changed other than dog followed me on these little outings. Initially Scoob stayed behind me when predators where first engaged, usually he did little more than growl or bark. Man my blood got pumping when he bit that first oppossum! These little forays may have been incredibly important in shaping Scoob's present disposition towards chicken alarms and varmints. Alarms get him riled and varmints get him real riled. He seems to have gotten my methods down pretty well. Now the second dog (female pup Lucy) has been brought into fold, Scoob is passing down my restless response to visiting baddies. Every time Scoob gets riled, pup tries to follow but presently does not go more than 50 feet beyond front porch unless I go with her. She clearly gets excited around varmint trails but has not actually sniffed up close and personal. This all for better now since she is not a big as a large opossum yet. She is coming along though. Care must be take to prevent premature engagement of a predator that might hurt her. Getting hurt to you could effectively ruin her as a livestock guardian.

Tonight Scoob is paying particular attention to neighbors patch growling and occasionally going over to check things out. I am keeping ears open for sound to Scoob barking as signal to get lite, rifle and pants on. Another hen decided to incubate a clutch on open ground in pasture so we need to put a pen over her to slow predator enough for Scoob to ruin it's day if attempt made hen.

 

[centrarchid]

RED FOX AND TWO RACCOONS WITHIN 15 MINUTES

Tonight I let Scoob into house to play with pup. Door was closed owing to AC operating and temp well onto 90's. Scoob suddenly jumped up and ran to door whining in a very agitated manner. I let him out and heard immediately a juvenile chicken squawlling in pen farthest to northeast. Scoob was already in route when I caught big green eyes of red fox in beam blinding critter. It apparently could hear Scoob coming and ran to northeast yet Scoob appeared to almost catch fox as it began its last instant dodges to avoid Scoobs maul. They crested hill going beyond beam which I think did not work in Scoobs favor since he was light adapted from being inside. I could hear chase going into distance as they plowed into thicket. Scoob was gone 5 minutes as I surveyed damage. An F2 game x dominique had a few feathers pulled from base of left wing but otherwise no damage. He has never been able to roost in elevated location because of some problem I guess with inner ear so the numb nut roost on ground up against wire. That is bad. Even after bird pulled free from fox, the bird squawled greatly assisting detection of fox. Not more than a few minutes later we could hear raccoons fighting near pond beyond most southwesterly pens. Scoob sprinted over and busted up action. Those coons come within 150 feet of outer pens pretty regularly but have not been a problem yet. Pup got excited by whole fiasco so good. Upcoming weather change maybe promoting more critter movement.

 

[smilingcat]

Just got around to this thread. Yup, we have a Pyrenees mix. he weighs in at scant 80 pounds. Never bothered the chicken even from day one. He was interested but never did try to mouth them or go chicken bowling. Downside to Pyrenees is that they will bark and bark a lot. Every morning, he goes to the edge of the property perimeter and barks and barks all the way around. He also likes to poop around the perimeter and scatter his poop so coyotes and other predators know not to come into his territory.

Pyrenees is not for everyone. Unless you have experience handling large breed dogs, Pyrenees is definitely NOT for you! Purebreds also have several medical conditions: knee cap problem fairly common and few others that is escaping me at the moment. Pyrenees needs room. If you have a small backyard, forget it. They also do not necessarily make good house pets because they were bred to be LGD of sheep and goats. They also do not do too well in extreme heat owing to their thick fur and undercoat.

And because of their large size, if you can't afford $50.00/month on dog food don't even think about these dogs. Vet bills is pretty expensive and these dogs only live about 10-12 years at most.

So before you decide to go full bore and get a dog bred to be LGD, think long and hard. They need space. They do not make good family pet. And you need to be experienced at handling these large breed dogs. Some will try to be the dominant member of the pack and this includes you. If you let the dog become the alpha, you are in big big trouble. Another breed you want to think twice is Maremma Sheepdog. Beautiful but extremely head strong and will challenge you. Pyrenees male will be around 100 to 120 pound. Maremma Sheepdog is comparable. I think Maremma is harder than Pyrenees to train and handle.

And Pyrenees even though are large will generally do not engage an intruder. They will bark to let you know and they will intimidate the intruder. I'm not sure about Maremma sheepdog.

I get bit peeved when people adopt/buy dogs not suited for their lifestyle and after a year or two dump'em at a shelter or give them to a rescue group. These dogs deserve better than that.

thanks for letting me rant.

 

[centrarchid]

Just got around to this thread. Yup, we have a Pyrenees mix. he weighs in at scant 80 pounds. Never bothered the chicken even from day one. He was interested but never did try to mouth them or go chicken bowling. Downside to Pyrenees is that they will bark and bark a lot. Every morning, he goes to the edge of the property perimeter and barks and barks all the way around. He also likes to poop around the perimeter and scatter his poop so coyotes and other predators know not to come into his territory.

Pyrenees is not for everyone. Unless you have experience handling large breed dogs, Pyrenees is definitely NOT for you! Purebreds also have several medical conditions: knee cap problem fairly common and few others that is escaping me at the moment. Pyrenees needs room. If you have a small backyard, forget it. They also do not necessarily make good house pets because they were bred to be LGD of sheep and goats. They also do not do too well in extreme heat owing to their thick fur and undercoat.

And because of their large size, if you can't afford $50.00/month on dog food don't even think about these dogs. Vet bills is pretty expensive and these dogs only live about 10-12 years at most.

So before you decide to go full bore and get a dog bred to be LGD, think long and hard. They need space. They do not make good family pet. And you need to be experienced at handling these large breed dogs. Some will try to be the dominant member of the pack and this includes you. If you let the dog become the alpha, you are in big big trouble. Another breed you want to think twice is Maremma Sheepdog. Beautiful but extremely head strong and will challenge you. Pyrenees male will be around 100 to 120 pound. Maremma Sheepdog is comparable. I think Maremma is harder than Pyrenees to train and handle.

And Pyrenees even though are large will generally do not engage an intruder. They will bark to let you know and they will intimidate the intruder. I'm not sure about Maremma sheepdog.

I get bit peeved when people adopt/buy dogs not suited for their lifestyle and after a year or two dump'em at a shelter or give them to a rescue group. These dogs deserve better than that.

thanks for letting me rant.

Your assessment of the larger dog breeds, breeds developed for protecting single large herds of sheep and goats that are mobile over many square miles, is consistent with my mine when dealing with smaller much less mobile poultry flocks that are not tightly herding. Wrong tool for job. Such large dogs when dealing with poulry are most suited for poultry flocks that are more or less confined and concentrated as well as having most important predators being of the stand up and fight variaty. Red fox, raccoons, oppossums, hawks and even my coyotes do not qualify as the stand up and fight types.