Platnium and Fawn, how is it made?

[troyer]

Here is as good of an example as I can come up with.

 

[troyer]

I suppose though that the Wyandotte are on chocolate and not on dun?

 

[MysteryChicken]

I've never heard of Fawn being reliant on silver being present. Do you have a source for that info? Everything I'm finding is indicating that Fawn is just the common name for dun.




Beautiful birds! Just as a means of helping you understand the differences between them, Fawn, and Platinum, do you know the genetics for the Mauve coloration? That they are solid Black (two copies extended black, E/E), plus Blue (one copy of the blue gene, Bl/bl+) and Chocolate (two copies of the chocolate gene in males, choc/choc, but one copy in females, choc/-, because it is a sexlinked recessive gene)? Platinum is a similar variety, but based on dun instead of Chocolate, so you would have a Black bird as the base with Blue and dun (I^d/i+). For 'just' Fawn, take the Blue out of the equation of the Platinum bird, leaving a Black base plus dun (and... maybe silver as well, I guess?).

It's kind of hard to be any clearer than that. I can try to explain a bit, though, to maybe help you understand a little bit about what all those symbols mean. When you see an 'equation' like what the other user posted, or letters like what I have in the above paragraph, what you're looking at is basically a code to explain the genes. These genes come in pairs, one from the bird's father and one from their mother. Capital letters mean that gene is dominant (for example, E/E in my above paragraph), while lower case is recessive (as in choc/choc). Any time you see a plus sign, that means that the gene it's following is wildtype, or that that's the gene that occurs normally in the ancestral wild population (like Bl/bl+, where Bl is the Blue gene and bl+ is the wildtype of not being Blue). If there are no differences from the wildtype in a pairing of genes, it's generally not mentioned because it's understood to be the same as wildtype. For example, I wouldn't mention that your birds are not Lavender or split (as far as I'm aware), and therefore are Lav+/Lav+, because that is understood to be the case. Lastly, if a gene is sexlinked, then the males may have two copies of it (again, as in choc/choc), but females will only ever be able to carry a single copy (as indicated by the dash in choc/-).

It gets a bit more complicated when you have many different alleles of the same gene. That's where you may see a superscripted letter, or one with a ^ and a letter, as in the dun gene, I^d. All that means is that there are several different things that can fit in that 'slot,' dun being one of them, but you CAN'T have both I^d/i+ AND I^s/I^s in the same bird, as an example, because there's only enough room for two alleles in that slot (so either I^d/i+ or I^s/I^s, or some other combination of two).

Sorry, I hope that wasn't even more confusing! I'm never sure if I'm being too wordy or as clear as mud when I explain things like this. As for the confusion with the calculator, I've played around with it, but not as much as others, so I don't think I can explain the discrepancies between what it says and what should happen.

I was just clarifying the difference of Fawn/Red Dun, & Fawn/Dun,

SilverDun/Fawn Silver X Silver Duckwing.

RedDun/Fawn Red X BB Red.

Post in thread 'Fawn Red Old English Bantams' https://www.backyardchickens.com/threads/fawn-red-old-english-bantams.1224417/post-21034149

https://www.backyardchickens.com/threads/dun-chocolate-and-dun-sumatras.430183/page-3

These have more information on the coloration, variations.

 

[Shewstock]

Here is as good of an example as I can come up with.View attachment 2964644


View attachment 2964645

Wow!! Now THIS I understand! Thank you for posting!

 

[troyer]

A bit on the chocolate gene.

 

[YardMoa]

For fawn/dun and khaki it helps to think of it like andalusian blue. Khaki is essentially "splash" fawn/dun. If you bred a khaki to a blue splash, the offspring should all be platinum.

But you might need to breed dun into an orpington line first. It's a project within a project.

 

[nicalandia]

Neither Mauve nor Platinum are a Solid shade, the inner feathers are the combination of both colors(blue and Choc/Dun) but the edges or the lacing is of a chocolate color due to the effect of Melnaotic/Patter gene on the Extended Black backgrouns, the pyle zones and lacing/edging remains nearly black so leaving Choc/Dun to dilute it to a Chocolate color.

The effect can be seen best in the Andalusian Blue breed

Some Orps are very well "Black Laced" Blue

 

[YardMoa]

Mu understanding is that platinum is blue plus dun/fawn. While mauve is blue plus sex linked chocolate. The one example of a platinum bird I've been able to find (on the internet), shows an almost steel grey on the places that would be black, with a warm tone,, not translucent like mauve.

Blue Andalusians (the breed) are supposed to be black laced blue, like the one in the first two photos. Genetically it's the similar to gold or silver single laced, but on a birchen based bird. The reason that bird is not silver or gold laced is because Db is needed when the pattern is based on ER. The body feathers on a properly laced Blue Andalusian look exactly like on a gold laced bird. The third picture is a bird with just the edging, the "lacing" is thinner and fuzziness. On a black laced blue the lacing almost looks drawn with a sharpie.

If you look at https://www.backyardchickens.com/th...-and-lots-of-reading-updated-nov-13th.343605/
There is a feather chart showing the similarity.

 

[troyer]

Gold Platinum.

Red dun bantam.

Two shades of dun, dark and light.

I have all these colors except chocolate and have been playing with them for 9-ish years.

 

[nicalandia]

Blue Andalusians (the breed) are supposed to be black laced blue, like the one in the first two photos. Genetically it's the similar to gold or silver single laced, but on a birchen based bird. The reason that bird is not silver or gold laced is because Db is needed when the pattern is based on ER. The body feathers on a properly laced Blue Andalusian look exactly like on a gold laced bird. The third picture is a bird with just the edging, the "lacing" is thinner and fuzziness. On a black laced blue the lacing almost looks drawn with a sharpie.

Blue Andalusians are based on Extended Black, there is no sign of Db on chick down. Their phenotype is exceptionally laced due to pure selection. You can see perfectly black laced blue birds from time to time. The effect of Db and Co on a Birchen based bird leads to a Laced bird showing ground color inside of the feather(be it gold/red or Silver), Sebright are good example of that. They are ER/Birche based, with all of the required mutations to produce Lacing on such a background. Ml(Melanotic), Pg(Pattern gene), Db(Dark Brown chick down) and Co(Columbian restrictor). Db, Ml and Pg are closely linked so they don't segregate independently.

ER/ER + Wild Type genes(no restrictors, no Melanizers) = Brown Red
ER/ER + Db-Pg-Ml Combo(as they are usually linked) = Gold Spangled
ER + Db-Pg-Ml + Co = Gold Based Laced



https://www.semanticscholar.org/pap...arez/ffc57732cfbafb5ab7b921f2107f7ce2620f8d30