Please help! Anemic chick dying

[Sqhomestead]

@rebrascora I think this means you were right?

 

[Eggcessive]

Thank you so much for posting your necropsy results. It can be helpful to all of us to read what the vet said. So sorry that you have the disease in your flock, but good that you got a diagnosis.

 

[rebrascora]

I do not take any joy in being right in such circumstances, but I don't actually see any confirmation of Marek's on the pages of the necropsy you have posted.... and there is even some misinformation..... eg that Marek's affects birds between 8 and 20 weeks..... because that is just the most common age range whereas it can be significantly broader... anywhere from 3 weeks to several years.

I'm not saying it isn't Marek's and the number of neoplastic lymphocytes in various organs point in that direction but I would have expected a final summary of findings and some indication that PCR had been done to identify Marek's.

 

[Sqhomestead]

@rebrascora
I completely agree. This report was confusing even for my vet today and he told me if it were him, he would just treat the flock as if it's confirmed Mareks .. I guess a better safe than sorry type stance. So to summarize, I've had 4 sick birds.. 2 adults, 2 pullets. 3 have died. The only one that did not die I am almost sure was not being affected by anything more than vitamin deficiency. The whole flock was being treated for cocci and come to find out they did not have an over load and probably didn't need treatment.

The 3 that died showed some similar symptoms, droopy wing, paralysis in legs that would come and go. Respiratory distress. So I am indeed going to roll on as if my flock for sure has Mareks. I've read so much for weeks now, but one thing I think I understand is that this virus is literally EVERYWHERE. I'm betting most any backyard flocks that don't practice 24/7 bio security have been exposed to this and if they never got sick, they were fortunately able to fend the virus off, but can still pass it on. The same with vaccinated birds. My understanding is the vaccine may stop the tumors from developing, but never actually prevents the bird from gettingthe virus, they just have a much much better chance of not getting sick.

I have a million questions and I hope I don't drive everyone nuts lol one thing is I am trying to make sure anytime I leave my house I am not tracking shredded virus with me. What can I use to get it out of my car if it is in it? Does bleach kill it on surfaces ? I had the sick chickens in the house and even though I am a very cleanly person, I want to go back over every inch and disinfect. I have shoes that will only ever be worn for going to the coops. I suppose I shouldn't let any if my flock free range any longer?

@rebrascora I know you didn't want to be right here, but I'm pretty sure you are. And please know you are the biggest voice that stayed in my head not to lose hope, and still are.

@Eggcessive I am most happy to share my experiences in hopes some day it helps someine even just a little. I wish my writings were more clear but I was normally in panic mode when I was posting for help with their symptoms.

I do not take any joy in being right in such circumstances, but I don't actually see any confirmation of Marek's on the pages of the necropsy you have posted.... and there is even some misinformation..... eg that Marek's affects birds between 8 and 20 weeks..... because that is just the most common age range whereas it can be significantly broader... anywhere from 3 weeks to several years.

I'm not saying it isn't Marek's and the number of neoplastic lymphocytes in various organs point in that direction but I would have expected a final summary of findings and some indication that PCR had been done to identify Marek's.

 

[rebrascora]

Suzie, I hear what you are saying about it almost certainly being Marek's but you paid for a service and in my opinion (although I have only seen 2 pages of the report) but it sounds like your vet backs up my thoughts.... you have not received the service you paid for. What is the point of paying for a necropsy if they don't give you a definitive result. Is there a contact number on the report or email address? I would ask for clarification or at least whether testing for Marek's was conducted.

I believe there are some very experienced people here on BYC who have Marek's in their flock, perhaps a mild strain like the one I have and don't realise it. I so often read these people have typed, "it could be a sprain", when people report a lame bird with no obvious injury and state that they have had birds with a sprain that have got better in a couple of weeks when chicken's legs are incredibly tough. Or people suggest botulism, which is much rarer in chickens compared to Marek's. I'm also not entirely convinced about vitamin deficiency causing lameness or wry neck etc to any great extent. OK, possibly if a bird has been treated for extended periods with Corid perhaps, but I would bet that 90% of the time they are Marek's birds too. There is so much misunderstanding and misinformation about the disease, even with vets etc and the scientific community, perhaps because they only see the tip of the iceberg or worst case scenarios. and because there is such a huge variation in symptoms and range in severity from so mild you would not notice to fatal. So I would agree that it is probably in almost all flocks to some degree.

As regards disinfecting, Virkon S is the product that is supposed to be effective against the virus. Whilst I take basic precautions when I visit the feed store or other people's flocks or shows etc I don't go to the nth degree of disinfecting. My birds were free range at the time that they first came down with it and I was so busy dealing with the outbreak, I didn't even begin to think about the potential for spreading it..... I knew, so little about the disease in the early stages. Even if they were in a run though, making it so that wild birds cannot get it is nigh on impossible and it can still travel on the wind! In some respects they may be better free ranging as there is not a build up of infected material in a small area and they are less likely to be symptomatic and shedding the disease if they are happy ranging..... What would you do to all the material you muck out?..... Do you currently use it for compost and then spread it on your garden? If it goes to land fill there are usually birds picking through that. Do you incinerate, but there will always be material that blows away during that process. I think you have to just accept that it is pretty much everywhere but take steps to prevent direct exposure to other birds/flocks by not selling or swapping, changing clothes and shoes when visiting other flocks etc. I would probably give the car a good vacuum. That is the best I can suggest.

 

[Sqhomestead]

@rebrascora you are very right. So I called the diagnostic center and asked about this report was told this is not the final report but an interim.. I told them the ONLY test I see that is pending is the one on the fungal infection in her lungs. The pathologist that's doing my chicken was unavailable for the phone call but they are supposed.to call me or email me.back with an answer to is there a PCR being done to confirm Mareks . I really just can't thank you enough for all of the advice and support .

 

[Sqhomestead]

I meant to say, the last 3 pages that I didn't post aren't anything really .. 1 is almost all. Blank with the address of the diagnostic center and the other 2 are the papers I filled out and signed the day I brought her in. I looked over everything again and I still only see 1 pending test, and that's the fungal test.

 

[rebrascora]

Well done for chasing it up! It should have been made clear if it was not a final report.
I would guess the fungal infection will be Aspergillosis as that can be common with Marek's birds, often combined with bacterial pneumonia due to the immunosuppressant action of the virus allowing these pathogens to thrive.
Death is often due to secondary infections like these rather than the disease itself but getting the Marek's confirmed is important in my opinion, especially when they clearly suspect it, because it has long term implications to your flock.

 

[Sqhomestead]

@rebrascora do you use vitamin and probiotic supplements daily for your flock? Is it bad for them to keep them on vitamins longer than 10 days? I swear I read that somewhere when I 1st got chickens but can't find it now.

 

[rebrascora]

I don't give vitamins every day, only whilst the flock is having an outbreak. Whenever possible I have found access to grass beneficial to Marek's sick birds. I am quite a big fan of fermented feed too, particularly for Marek's birds and it is easy to do and can be given every day. I can explain how to, if you are interested.