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Paula321
Songster
Thank you. I will likely run the apron again in a heavier wire. Better safe than sorry. I do like layering forms of risk management. Do you recommend an E fence?
Please recommend an electric fence
- Thread starter Paula321
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Paula321
Songster
What type of charger do you recommend? I will do this.
The fence itself can either be purchased as a pre-made netting, but a far less expensive and more flexible option is to buy fencing components and make your own. The fencing components are the fence charger (I have my own brand preference, but any brand will do as long as it is powerful enough to deliver some smack......1 joule.....10 miles.....minimum is the rating you want). The other components are the fence material (1/8" poly rope is effective and easy to work with.....you will need a small spool), plus a means to support the poly rope. I use step in insulated posts.......very easy to install and you can move it around as needed. With posts, you can have it a few inches or a few feet away from your run sides.......keeping varmints at arm's length. You can get all this at TSC.
The big mystery component remains the ground rod system. I recently had a chance to quiz the engineering folks at Parmak in Kansas City about their ground rod systems, along with other experienced users. The best way they were able to explain this was to use at least one full 8' ground rod.......that will assure that an animal standing on the soil will be treated to a full sized jolt from the fence charger. To complete the circuit, the jolt has to pass down the fence, through the shockee, and once it reaches the soil has to find a pathway back to the fencer. The earth's crust will do that for you....but it has to transfer from the earth's crust back to the fencer. When I mentioned my tester was showing 13,000 volts.........the response was to think of it like the battery cables on a car battery. Even a small undersized or corroded one will show voltage on the car's volt meter, but the when you hit the starter, it may not conduct enough juice to power up the starter.......you will only hear the click...click...click. In short, you have a weak connection. An inadequate ground rod system is a weak connection.
Of the experienced users, one guy told me his cows....who had been indifferent to his fence with a small ground rod.......one that tested high voltage.......showed a whole new level of respect once he installed the full recommended ground rod system.
And this is very much climate and location related. Dry desert conditions need an abundance of ground rods. Wet areas need far less. Again......goal is to establish a pathway through the earth's crust back to the fencer. Wetter areas conduct better than dry.
The big mystery component remains the ground rod system. I recently had a chance to quiz the engineering folks at Parmak in Kansas City about their ground rod systems, along with other experienced users. The best way they were able to explain this was to use at least one full 8' ground rod.......that will assure that an animal standing on the soil will be treated to a full sized jolt from the fence charger. To complete the circuit, the jolt has to pass down the fence, through the shockee, and once it reaches the soil has to find a pathway back to the fencer. The earth's crust will do that for you....but it has to transfer from the earth's crust back to the fencer. When I mentioned my tester was showing 13,000 volts.........the response was to think of it like the battery cables on a car battery. Even a small undersized or corroded one will show voltage on the car's volt meter, but the when you hit the starter, it may not conduct enough juice to power up the starter.......you will only hear the click...click...click. In short, you have a weak connection. An inadequate ground rod system is a weak connection.
Of the experienced users, one guy told me his cows....who had been indifferent to his fence with a small ground rod.......one that tested high voltage.......showed a whole new level of respect once he installed the full recommended ground rod system.
And this is very much climate and location related. Dry desert conditions need an abundance of ground rods. Wet areas need far less. Again......goal is to establish a pathway through the earth's crust back to the fencer. Wetter areas conduct better than dry.
I use the poly rope wire. I live near Ocala. I have had this up for many years and the predators know it's there. I have several game cameras up around on my property and pretty much nightly see a predator, mostly coyotes. These are older pictures I have added another coop on the end but still have this wire up. It goes completely around my coops and pens. I have concrete under the gates and netting covering all of the pens. I have electricity out at the coops so I have an AC charger. We do loose power now and then so I am going to buy a DC charger. I already have a battery. I am going to put a battery maintainer on the battery so it will stay charged. It is a trickle charger. My current fence charger is 1.2 joule and my power runs around 8000/10000 volts. It makes my heart skip a beat. I bought my stuff many years ago at TSC. Don't forget a ground rod. I bought an 8' rod.
It's hard to see but there is a coyote running along the back of these coops. The date is wrong on this picture. I have to reset the camera.
This is my chick/grow-out coop. There was a coyote running around it. It also has electric wire around it, netting covering the pens (there is another pen on the other side of the coop) and concrete under the gates there are some places I buried some welded wire in a trench and hog ringed it to the bottom of the fence. Nothing is going to get in there.
It's hard to see but there is a coyote running along the back of these coops. The date is wrong on this picture. I have to reset the camera.
This is my chick/grow-out coop. There was a coyote running around it. It also has electric wire around it, netting covering the pens (there is another pen on the other side of the coop) and concrete under the gates there are some places I buried some welded wire in a trench and hog ringed it to the bottom of the fence. Nothing is going to get in there.
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I like working with poly rope and poly wire.
They're both easy, though if cost is a concern, the 'do-dads' for poly wire (the thinner stuff) are more budget friendly. I wouldn't buy the cheap stuff in either poly wire or poly rope though- if you read carefully many say 'temporary applications' - I've had good long standing results with Powerfields.
Get the best charger you can afford, and strongly recommend the plug-in variety if you've got access.
We did a series of 3 six-foot ground rods, pounded all the way in, just 6" poking up, and they are then connected by 'underground' wire, which is the stiffer black-coated stuff. Put your ground rod(s) in a place you can keep moist - so by plants that receive regular watering in the summer, or where you empty a bucket … especially if you live somewhere getting deep into the ground might not be possible due to rocky soil, etc. We've got a soaker hose along ours.
A voltage tester is extremely handy to have and gives you peace of mind. Better than having to touch the fence and find out if it's working … lol … excellent advice on spacing given in other posts.
If you have things that will climb up and over, you'll want to have a ground wire (connected to the ground rods) up near the top border, by the top of your fence along with the hot wire. Once those feet leave the ground, they won't get much of a zap unless they're touching the ground wire and hot wire. (think: possum and other things that will climb fences, gnaw on your aviary net …)
They're both easy, though if cost is a concern, the 'do-dads' for poly wire (the thinner stuff) are more budget friendly. I wouldn't buy the cheap stuff in either poly wire or poly rope though- if you read carefully many say 'temporary applications' - I've had good long standing results with Powerfields.
Get the best charger you can afford, and strongly recommend the plug-in variety if you've got access.
We did a series of 3 six-foot ground rods, pounded all the way in, just 6" poking up, and they are then connected by 'underground' wire, which is the stiffer black-coated stuff. Put your ground rod(s) in a place you can keep moist - so by plants that receive regular watering in the summer, or where you empty a bucket … especially if you live somewhere getting deep into the ground might not be possible due to rocky soil, etc. We've got a soaker hose along ours.
A voltage tester is extremely handy to have and gives you peace of mind. Better than having to touch the fence and find out if it's working … lol … excellent advice on spacing given in other posts.
If you have things that will climb up and over, you'll want to have a ground wire (connected to the ground rods) up near the top border, by the top of your fence along with the hot wire. Once those feet leave the ground, they won't get much of a zap unless they're touching the ground wire and hot wire. (think: possum and other things that will climb fences, gnaw on your aviary net …)
One thing we did is used 'hog panels' underground. A 16ft section of that is around $20-30, just depends on your local farm store pricing -- anyways- we did two 16ft sections, and overlapped them so each of the holes on the hog panels became half the size. We buried the bigger holes on the ground and had the smaller holes sticking up out of the ground. For the chickens, we wrapped those panels in hardware cloth, which constitutes a 2nd layer of HW cloth around the chicken run.
These are the hog panels. If you have a regular bed truck, they can be bent into a "u" shape to get them home. Or, you can go for taller with cattle panels (2nd link) -- those are very tough stuff, especially when overlapped and wired together.
https://www.farmstore.com/product/hog-panel-16-ft
https://www.farmstore.com/product/cattle-panel-16-ft
I've dealt with electric fence for many years. You've been given some good advise so far here.
Wire.
But rather than the expensive poly rope/poly tape, I would use either steel or aluminum wire. It's a lot cheaper price wise and works 100x better. I've seen plenty of animals rub up on poly and not get shocked. Those skinny fine little wires in poly don't always touch the animal, it's usually the poly touching them and it doesn't conduct electricity. Regular wire will conduct the shock 100% of the time is contacted (with proper grounding).
Grounding.
For an electric fence to work, you need an adequate grounding system, and it is easily done. Always drive ground rod into soil that is at least 2 feet away from any roof line that would keep the soil from getting wet. One 8 foot ground rod is better than several short 3 foot rods.
If you have a chainlink fence around your property, you're in luck. Since the steel poles of the fence are usually buried quite deep, and there are lots of them, the whole fence acts as one huge ground rod array. Your charger still has to be grounded. By using "standoff" insulators you can run just one hot wire around the perimeter of the fence. Any animal that climbs the grounded fence will be grounded even 4 feet up in the air, and when it touches the hot wire, it's shock time!
If you have any kind of fence that predators can't just go thru and they have to climb, that single hot wire up top will usually do the trick. Plus you don't have to pull them up to mow or weed eat around them. Weeds growing up and shorting out the fence is less likely to occur also.
Tomorrow I will upload some pics that may explain it better.
Wire.
But rather than the expensive poly rope/poly tape, I would use either steel or aluminum wire. It's a lot cheaper price wise and works 100x better. I've seen plenty of animals rub up on poly and not get shocked. Those skinny fine little wires in poly don't always touch the animal, it's usually the poly touching them and it doesn't conduct electricity. Regular wire will conduct the shock 100% of the time is contacted (with proper grounding).
Grounding.
For an electric fence to work, you need an adequate grounding system, and it is easily done. Always drive ground rod into soil that is at least 2 feet away from any roof line that would keep the soil from getting wet. One 8 foot ground rod is better than several short 3 foot rods.
If you have a chainlink fence around your property, you're in luck. Since the steel poles of the fence are usually buried quite deep, and there are lots of them, the whole fence acts as one huge ground rod array. Your charger still has to be grounded. By using "standoff" insulators you can run just one hot wire around the perimeter of the fence. Any animal that climbs the grounded fence will be grounded even 4 feet up in the air, and when it touches the hot wire, it's shock time!
If you have any kind of fence that predators can't just go thru and they have to climb, that single hot wire up top will usually do the trick. Plus you don't have to pull them up to mow or weed eat around them. Weeds growing up and shorting out the fence is less likely to occur also.
Tomorrow I will upload some pics that may explain it better.
Can you upload some pics of the coop and the perimeter yard fence? You may be able to run wire around both for the same price as just wiring up the coop. Think multi-levels of protection.
And don't worry about the birds getting shocked, feathers are good insulators and even wet chicken feet don't ground well. My chickens go in and out and on and under my fence all day every day. But after just one shock 5 months ago, the dog won't come within 3 feet of it.
And don't worry about the birds getting shocked, feathers are good insulators and even wet chicken feet don't ground well. My chickens go in and out and on and under my fence all day every day. But after just one shock 5 months ago, the dog won't come within 3 feet of it.
At least a 30 mile charger. I would get the strongest charger I could afford. The smaller ones just tickle a lot of predators.
One other thing, down in central FL the ground can pretty sandy and dry, you may have to put down several 8 foot ground rods and even have a ground return wire across the soil at the bottom of the fence.
I haven't had an issue with polywire not shocking. A well-done true wire fence is of course better- but can be harder to accomplish and make look nice without the right tools/experience. After we tore down the "fence" at our last property (if I find a picture of it, I'll post it) and dealt with regular wire ... vowed never again!
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