Please tell me the truth. Should I give up?

[AmyA248]

Good morning all,

If you’re keeping up with my posts you’ll know I’m having serious issues with my incubator and egg death.
I absolutely cannot get the humidity where it should be. I empty the water because it goes to 57 percent humidity, then it plummets to 36 percent humidity. Then I add a pinch of water and get it to 45 and it holds for a bit then drops.
I’ve been at this since January 23rd. And she just keeps laying!
An egg a day, anywhere and everything.
She won’t use her brooding box or sit, so after 3 eggs died outside I had to intervene.
She never made a nest and will literally drop an egg anywhere in her coupe.
I got 2 eggs to day 16 and they both passed. I currently have 5 different ages in my incubator.
I’m terrified to candle them because when I lose one I get very upset.
I have a toddler on one hip and an incubator on the other.
I fuss with it all day and read hundreds of contradictory articles.

Last year I had no clue what I was doing and had to rescue 5 Wood duck eggs bc mom was killed by a fox.
I got a starter incubator, put them in and got 5 beautiful ducklings, no problems at all.

This time I researched and bought a very good incubator, read hundreds of articles and I’m failing terribly!
I’m furious with this incubator because it refuses to hold the humidity no matter what.
On the average I spent 6 hours a day fussing with it.
But we want ducklings so much!
Should I just give up?

Very kindly,
Amy

 

[Buckingham Palace]

Could you move them to the starter incubator?

 

[BirdsBeesTrees]

Good morning all,

If you’re keeping up with my posts you’ll know I’m having serious issues with my incubator and egg death.
I absolutely cannot get the humidity where it should be. I empty the water because it goes to 57 percent humidity, then it plummets to 36 percent humidity. Then I add a pinch of water and get it to 45 and it holds for a bit then drops.
I’ve been at this since January 23rd. And she just keeps laying!
An egg a day, anywhere and everything.
She won’t use her brooding box or sit, so after 3 eggs died outside I had to intervene.
She never made a nest and will literally drop an egg anywhere in her coupe.
I got 2 eggs to day 16 and they both passed. I currently have 5 different ages in my incubator.
I’m terrified to candle them because when I lose one I get very upset.
I have a toddler on one hip and an incubator on the other.
I fuss with it all day and read hundreds of contradictory articles.

Last year I had no clue what I was doing and had to rescue 5 Wood duck eggs bc mom was killed by a fox.
I got a starter incubator, put them in and got 5 beautiful ducklings, no problems at all.

This time I researched and bought a very good incubator, read hundreds of articles and I’m failing terribly!
I’m furious with this incubator because it refuses to hold the humidity no matter what.
On the average I spent 6 hours a day fussing with it.
But we want ducklings so much!
Should I just give up?

Very kindly,
Amy

If you get very upset over chicks/ducklings that don't make it in incubation, then probably incubating isn't for you.
The fact is that with incubation is a lot of death, especially while you are trying to figure things out with your incubator and even after.
Can you just buy some ducklings instead? Where are you located?

 

[HollowOfWisps]

-Is your Muscovy a new layer if so how recently did she start laying? Usually it's best to wait at least 1-2 months after they first start laying to incubate because those first 1-2 months is when their body is working the kinks out with laying. Incubating those first eggs often results in loss and issues because those first eggs are not the most ideal for hatching.

-Are the eggs you are using clean or dirty? The best eggs to use should be primarily clean and only require a quick dry brush to remove any debris. If the eggs are dirty and put in the incubator you will have losses due to bacteria growth inside the egg.

-As far as incubating goes, I would highly recommend dry incubating. The 36% humidity you had with no water is perfectly fine. My best hatch rates have been with dry incubating (humidity was staying in the 30%-40% range then at lock down I do add some water to bump it up to the 50-60% range.). Eggs need a fairly consistent environment to hatch and continually adjusting that environment throughout the day can in itself cause issues.

 

[AmyA248]

If you get very upset over chicks/ducklings that don't make it in incubation, then probably incubating isn't for you.
The fact is that with incubation is a lot of death, especially while you are trying to figure things out with your incubator and even after.
Can you just buy some ducklings instead? Where are you located?

Hi,
Thank you for your reply.
I’m very sensitive, yes. But I’m also an animal rehabber and rescuer. I’ve seen a lot of death with many different species of baby animals that I’ve done everything in my power to save, but it’s my calling and can be unbelievably rewarding.
That being said, we currently have 3

If you get very upset over chicks/ducklings that don't make it in incubation, then probably incubating isn't for you.
The fact is that with incubation is a lot of death, especially while you are trying to figure things out with your incubator and even after.
Can you just buy some ducklings instead? Where are you located?

Good morning,

Thank you for your reply.
Yes, I’m very sensitive, but I’m also an animal rehabber and rescuer, so sadly I have seen a lot of death, but it’s my calling and is unbelievably rewarding to have the ability to save the lives of Gods tiny creatures.
That being said we currently have 3 lovely Muscovy ducks. One female and two males. We lost our other female to a hawk attack over the summer. It broke out heart’s obviously.
Our female started laying on January 23rd and is STILL laying as of this morning!
She apparently never went broody, as she doesn’t use her brooding box which is off the ground and built perfectly for her. She simply drops her eggs everywhere. So I candle them and they all have been fertile so far. 19 eggs already and this is her first clutch. She is 9 months old.
Since the eggs were fertilized I felt I had to give them them a chance.
I read every single article I can find on incubation (I read Muscovy eggs are notoriously difficult to incubate) the humidity must maintain perfectly as well as the temperature.
My incubator isn’t the best even though I researched to find a good one.
I’m doing everything right (I think) but I’m the farthest from an expert.
I had no issues with the 5 abandoned Wood duck eggs I incubated last summer. Sadly mom was killed by a fox when her clutch was about a week old.
They all hatched and I give full credit to this amazing group! I had no idea what to do and the kind people here walked me through every step!
Due to the great luck I had with the Wood ducks I didn’t think my Muscovy’s would be any different. Boy, I was wrong!
I have not been able to get any of my eggs past day 15, but I candled last night and I currently have a 17 day old and a 15 day old that are still alive and very active.
I wish I knew what it is about that specific time.
I have definitely thought about giving up, but then my conscious kicks in and I just can’t do it.
I’m very blessed that I work from home. I see my patients via Zoom. So I’m able to be here for my children and my animals.
But I find myself constantly trying to regulate the humidity in this incubator and it’s very time consuming.
I’m going to have to purchase another incubator because I have all different ages of eggs. I’m very surprised that she is STILL laying. Is that normal to lay for 3 weeks?
Even if she was broody she wouldn’t sit until she was done laying her clutch and the egg’s would not have survived that long without her sitting. I’m very confused..

I have included several photos from last night. I’m not sure if the ones without veining are fertilized, but they are only a few days old.

Thank you again and have a blessed day!

 

[AmyA248]

-Is your Muscovy a new layer if so how recently did she start laying? Usually it's best to wait at least 1-2 months after they first start laying to incubate because those first 1-2 months is when their body is working the kinks out with laying. Incubating those first eggs often results in loss and issues because those first eggs are not the most ideal for hatching.

-Are the eggs you are using clean or dirty? The best eggs to use should be primarily clean and only require a quick dry brush to remove any debris. If the eggs are dirty and put in the incubator you will have losses due to bacteria growth inside the egg.

-As far as incubating goes, I would highly recommend dry incubating. The 36% humidity you had with no water is perfectly fine. My best hatch rates have been with dry incubating (humidity was staying in the 30%-40% range then at lock down I do add some water to bump it up to the 50-60% range.). Eggs need a fairly consistent environment to hatch and continually adjusting that environment throughout the day can in itself cause issues.

Hi!

Wow, thank you!
This is her first clutch. She is 9 months old and has been laying continuously since January 23rd!
She did not go broody, she just laid her eggs anywhere. We keep their enclosure very clean and change out the hay daily and rake out as much of the droppings as possible twice a day.
The eggs are never dirty and since someone is always checking on them the eggs are never outside for more than a few hours.
All have been fertilized so far. 19 eggs in all as of just this morning.
I just can’t believe she’s STILL laying! Is that normal? Even if she was broody, don’t they wait until they are done laying to sit?
The first eggs would never have survived 3 weeks.

Changing the subject, could I go to dry after I already started with 45%??
Currently, I have 8 remaining eggs.
One at 18 days
One at 16 days
4 are between 7 and 9 days
2 are 1 and 3 days

So, all different ages are incubating at this time.
I’m terrified to candle my oldest ones because I’ve never made it past day 15 and 16. Is this an important time during development?

If you don’t mind I’m going to ask a few questions that every article I’ve read disagrees upon.

Should I be cooling for 20 minutes each day and misting when I put them back in the incubator?

Should the temperature be between 37.6 - 37.8 C?
Should the humidity be at exactly 45% if I’m not dry incubating?

I’m just at a complete loss right now because last summer I had all 5 of my abandoned Wood duck eggs hatch perfectly. I thought it would be the same with my Muscovy eggs, but I couldn’t have been more wrong.

Thank you again and I look forward to hearing back from you regarding dry hatching!

Blessings,
Amy

 

[Ridgeback825]

Hey there Amy, don't beat yourself up. Imitating nature is difficult. I would recommend gathering a bunch and starting them all together. Having staggered hatches is more difficult, especially with only one incubator. I would recommend doing a dry hatch and only adding water after lockdown has started. Ducks can be a bit odd and our pekin hasn't missed a day in about 3 weeks. You might also wait a bit for her to mature and work out the kinks like already suggested and broodiness is subjective to the bird and not all want to sit on a nest. We all love ducklings so I hope you keep trying and learning! Keep is posted on the fluffballs!

 

[Ridgerunner]

What incubator do you have, make and model. Do you have an online link to it so I can try to see how it is supposed to handle humidity?

I do not hatch duck eggs so I won't talk about them but your incubator does not sound like it is acting right. That's what I want to look at.

 

[AmyA248]

Hey there Amy, don't beat yourself up. Imitating nature is difficult. I would recommend gathering a bunch and starting them all together. Having staggered hatches is more difficult, especially with only one incubator. I would recommend doing a dry hatch and only adding water after lockdown has started. Ducks can be a bit odd and our pekin hasn't missed a day in about 3 weeks. You might also wait a bit for her to mature and work out the kinks like already suggested and broodiness is subjective to the bird and not all want to sit on a nest. We all love ducklings so I hope you keep trying and learning! Keep is posted on the fluffballs!

Awe, your so sweet!
Thank you for your advice.
I was definitely going to wait until she was done laying instead of staggering, but the eggs wouldn’t have been viable due to the fact that she’s been laying since January 23rd!!
She’s definitely not mature enough because she didn’t go brooding and never sat or laid more then 2 eggs at a time.

It’s always just one egg every other day or every 3 days.
I really didn’t have much of a choice due to the viability going down each day that you store.
As of this morning I have a 19 day old and a 17 day old. I’ve yet to get to this point with any of them and sadly I don’t expect them to survive no matter how hard I try.

May I ask if I can start going dry at this point of development, or do I have to start off with dry?
I’m just afraid it would be too much of a shock, but as you know I’m a novice.
It’s so odd because I had no issues with my Wood ducks last summer. Except one was born with a giant egg sac still not absorbed and he couldn’t stand or lift his neck.
I had to make him a little bed and hand feed him until the sac was absorbed and he got stronger. I didn’t think he would make it, but with TLC he recovered beautifully.
Then another baby was born half the size of her siblings, had a severely deformed leg, blind in one eye and severe neurological problems.
The vet said I should put her down, but she imprinted with me because I carried her around in a little sac around my neck because she would go nuts if I wasn’t with her. I couldn’t put her with her siblings because she needed so much care.
I just feel in love with her.
But sadly the vet was correct. She lived for 17 days and died of a seizure in my arms.
I cried for over a week and my little girl was devastated. I will never forget her, she taught me so much in the 17 days she was with us. It was so amazing how she imprinted with me, and she’d look up at me like I understood her.
I’m sorry to go on and on, but basically what I’m trying to say is that I didn’t know Muscovy’s were so much more difficult to incubate.

I’m adding some photos of my Muscovy’s as babies and our little Wood ducks, including “Jellybean” who was my special Angel. (Look at the difference in size from her and her siblings. )

Very kindly,
Amy

 

[Ridgeback825]

From my understanding and experience, the humidity level is what controls how large the air sac gets. It's a balancing act that is easier to predict if kept fairly consistent. I don't believe it crucial hour by hour until lockdown. After lockdown, the higher humidity helps the shell soften and keeps the babies moist and lubed for hatching, as they can take some time. It's a balancing act that needs to keep the destination in mind more than any particular point along the way. I do dry hatching because I live in Florida and it's humid most of the year. I only add water if it drops below 30% and full water for lockdown. My experience only goes as far as chicks but know they are very similar. Ducks can be much more difficult but keep trying!