Plymouth Rock thread!

[Fred's Hens]

I find it helpful to ignore the color of the Rock. No matter the variety, imagine a black and white world, where you couldn't tell the difference between a barred, penciled, partridge, columbian, white or buff. In the early morning light of pre-dawn, I watch the birds out my kitchen window, with the sky pinking up behind them. All you can see is silhouette shapes moving about. That's a great time to judge their profiles, shape, form and balance.

The Rock shown by Bob in black and white could be any color, any variety.

These Rocks below look just like the SPPR Rocks that Bob posted above. Ignore the camouflage and just see the silhouette.



We Barred Rocks folks can get all caught up in the barring and so I imagine the other varieties folks can get all caught up in their patterns too. I've never kept anything besides the BRs and WRs, so I don't know, but believe so. Without that Rock look, that oh so gorgeous, standard, solid Rock look, the bird can be as pretty feathered as anything in nature, but isn't a Rock, in my universe. Pretty easy to push for the exterior and end up with single comb Wyandottes, Brahmas, or what have you.

 

[aoxa]

I need to get the tails up on my Barred birds. I went from WAY too high of a tail, to just a very slight angle..

Especially my boys.

How my main cock holds his tail when preening, but had to show he has better depth than the picture where he is holding his tail how he usually does. There isn't a decline typically. It was just a bad moment, but the best I got that day.



So I'm thinking I should aim for higher.. *Note* He is under a year old. Around 10 months. He has no spur development yet at all, and I think he has more growing to do. He's grown quite a bit in the two months I've had him

I have quite a few boys growing out. I do love the yellow of this boys legs.

I think he has good balance. Please correct me if I'm wrong.


This one is quite young (6 months or so) but you can tell her tail is also angled quite low.

 

[Wynette]

TNBEAR, I agree with you - use them for their intended purpose! Good on you.

Diefly has my line, and some from a fellow in Florida (his name escapes me, but nice birds). I do not know if she's kept them separated or not, nor do I know how much hatching she's done or what her goals are, but hey - THE MORE, THE MERRIER!

ETA - I think her other line is from Danny Padgett.

 

[Silver Rock]

Balance is something that I am very keen on; not only with the Rocks, but with my Giants (as well as Marans). An unbalanced bird is just sloppy to look at, and I feel like in a bird with good balance, everything else has a much easier chance of falling right into place. What Bob says above, regarding the legs being in the center of the body. If you have a bird standing square/straight, draw a line up from the legs - all the way past the topline, then fold that picture over. The body should almost almost have the same lines when you look at that folded paper through the light. This would be for a mature bird only. Here's an example of a silver penciled rock with bad balance; see how front-heavy she is? (I will not reveal the bloodline as I don't want to offend anyone, but she is not from my line.): This bird is a mess, in my opinion. Her topline is incorrect, as is her tail. Wing carriage is even an issue. I feel like if this bird posessed proper "balance," these issues may very well be resolved. She does have nice color, and her penciling is complete in the front of the neck - many fade out to white in the front of the neck toward the head. Something else to watch for in the breed. Now, here is a young male with excellent balance (this is not a Rock, but it's the best picture I have to illustrate balance). If you chopped off this guy's head/neck and his tail, then drew a line straight up from his legs and folded the picture over itself, you would see the good balance of this male. The topline in this breed, per SOP, should run slightly uphill from base of tail to base of neck, so obviously that won't replicate if you fold a paper over) - but, the idea is that they should not be too "front heavy" nor to heavy behind: Although it's not a great picture, and he's not relaxed, can you tell that this silver pencield rock male is of the same bloodline as the female above? (However, look at those GORGEOUS yellow legs!)

I have no idea who is the owner of these Silver Penciled Plymouth Rocks are but I will support you in your efforts to breed to the Standard of Perfection and will not criticize you for the ones you are breeding now. The goal is to bring more breeders in and not to run them away.

 

[Wynette]

I have no idea who is the owner of these Silver Penciled Plymouth Rocks are but I will support you in your efforts to breed to the Standard of Perfection and will not criticize you for the ones you are breeding now. The goal is to bring more breeders in and not to run them away.

I used these pictures simply becuase they are good examples to illustrate what I mean about "balance."

 

[cbnovick]

I find it helpful to ignore the color of the Rock. No matter the variety, imagine a black and white world, where you couldn't tell the difference between a barred, penciled, partridge, columbian, white or buff. In the early morning light of pre-dawn, I watch the birds out my kitchen window, with the sky pinking up behind them. All you can see is silhouette shapes moving about. That's a great time to judge their profiles, shape, form and balance.

The Rock shown by Bob in black and white could be any color, any variety.

These Rocks below look just like the SPPR Rocks that Bob posted above. Ignore the camouflage and just see the silhouette.



We Barred Rocks folks can get all caught up in the barring and so I imagine the other varieties folks can get all caught up in their patterns too. I've never kept anything besides the BRs and WRs, so I don't know, but believe so. Without that Rock look, that oh so gorgeous, standard, solid Rock look, the bird can be as pretty feathered as anything in nature, but isn't a Rock, in my universe. Pretty easy to push for the exterior and end up with single comb Wyandottes, Brahmas, or what have you.

Excellent post, Fred...silhouette is everything in type I am learning...

here's an example albeit not the best SOP side profile pic:

Despite these 2 birds being the same color....
and obviously the legs clue one in immediately, it is so evident even at 8-9 weeks that these are different breeds just based on their shape/type.

Orp out front is unmistakably SOP bred Orp type-silhouette
Rock in back is unmistakably SOP bred Rock type-silhouette

The breeders of these 8 and 9 week old chicks know type is paramount

to Tom Roebuck & Vickie Dawson

 

[Wynette]

I find it helpful to ignore the color of the Rock. No matter the variety, imagine a black and white world, where you couldn't tell the difference between a barred, penciled, partridge, columbian, white or buff. In the early morning light of pre-dawn, I watch the birds out my kitchen window, with the sky pinking up behind them. All you can see is silhouette shapes moving about. That's a great time to judge their profiles, shape, form and balance.

Fred, I just noticed your post and wholeheartedly agree. It can prove difficult, even at times for the more seasoned breeders to see past color. In any bird or variety. I realize Marans are not an H breed, but as the SOP was being written for them, we had this exact same discussion, and decided it was the perfect time to do a sketch (which was then approved by the breed club's board). Here is the sketch of the male that we came up with:


It's so very basic, but without the variety color, makes it so much simpler to evaluate a bird. I have the male & female sketches printed up & taped to the walls of my barn, and other places, and I refer to them often. I recently was fortunate to have been able to purchase a batch of Marans from an imported line, and having these sketches handy was SO worthwhile to me; it would have been so easy to keep them all, knowing they are rare and sought after. But nope - I stuck to my guns, and kept only the handful that conformed to the breed standard. I know that I'll be super happy, in the long run, that I did so - even if it WAS difficult!

 

[Wynette]

You know, it's so diffficult to tell via pics, but to my UNtrained eye, this male appears to be a bit too heavy in the front; but, please don't take my word for it, as I am most definitely on the uphill climb of learning about this stuff. I can tell on an extremely poor example, or a really good one, but unless the pose is exactly natural & the angle is exactly right, I'm not the best at being able to tell. I'd love to hear what others' opinions are! As for tail, I know that Scott (Yard Full O' Rocks) has worked diligently on tails in his Columbians, he would be a good one to ask on his breeding strategies there. As far as yellow legs....um...yeah, you got that nailed! Regardless of anything, he's a really handsome bloke!

 

[aoxa]

You know, it's so diffficult to tell via pics, but to my UNtrained eye, this male appears to be a bit too heavy in the front; but, please don't take my word for it, as I am most definitely on the uphill climb of learning about this stuff. I can tell on an extremely poor example, or a really good one, but unless the pose is exactly natural & the angle is exactly right, I'm not the best at being able to tell. I'd love to hear what others' opinions are! As for tail, I know that Scott (Yard Full O' Rocks) has worked diligently on tails in his Columbians, he would be a good one to ask on his breeding strategies there. As far as yellow legs....um...yeah, you got that nailed! Regardless of anything, he's a really handsome bloke!

I will definitely work at getting better poses with him. He is always on the go with everything and rarely takes time to pose for me. He has the personality that I am for in a cock bird. Protective, good with humans, good with chicks, and does not abuse the hens. He also keeps the young roosters in line. Definitely top gun.

My backup, I am not fond of. He has hardly any tail at all, it's short. I will sell him off as soon as I get a better cockerel out of it. Though both are very good in personality.

 

[Wynette]

I don't think you can discount the disposition factor. I prefer a more aggressive male, but not toward me. Well.......a little aggressive toward me is acceptable (to ME). They're better breeders and protectors, IMHO. To have one that's all that, plus good with chicks and doesn't overbreed the hens...well, that's just priceless!