Polish frizzle questions

[Bunnylady]

Both parents have to have at least one copy of it. A bird that has two copies of the modifier by default has no copies of the normal, non-modifying form of the gene, so it will always pass a copy of the modifier to its offspring. A bird with only one copy of the modifier has one copy of the non-modifier too, and has a 50/50 chance of passing each on to its offspring.

 

[Sonoran Silkies]

But I am not breeding a smooth drizzle to a frizzle. Bam breeding a smooth frizzle to a regular Silkie who comes from three generations of my breeding and came from a a non frizzle breeder. And even if somehow he has frizzle in his past therefor the babies being a double frizzle, why aren't any losing their feathers?
I'm not meaning to be argumentative. I'm just trying to understand this because I seen to be getting drizzles that don't seem to be frazzled from a cross that should only be getting smooth birds.

The modifier gene undoes the effects of the frizzling gene, so a hom. frizzle that is modified looks and appears to be a het. frizzle; it won't have the feather problems that hom. frizzles without the modifier have.

What is a drizzle? I assume some sort of frizzle?

 

[Sonoran Silkies]

Okay I think I'm getting this. If the smooth drizzle parent, no matter what it's crossed with, will have some frizzle chicks if he/she has a double modifier?

OK. let's assume that the bird is F/f+ mf/mf. It will appear to not be frizzled. All its offspring will inherit a copy of mf. About half will inherit a copy of frizzle; the other half will not. The ones that inherited F will be frizzled unless they inherited mf from their other parent (as well as from the smooth frizzle parent). If they did inherit a 2nd copy of mf, they will not be appear frizzled unless they also inherited a 2nd copy if F.

F/f mf/mf do not appear to be frizzled

F/F mf/mf appear frizzled

F/f Mf/? are frizzled

F/F Mf/? are curley (aka frazzled)

 

[Sonoran Silkies]

So how do they get the double modifier?

They must inherit a copy from each parent.

 

[Bunnylady]

So it's like two copies of the modifier cancel out one copy of the frizzle gene.

 

[MadamPoofyBrow]

A drizzle is what happens when I'm typing on mobile and frizzle isn't a 'word' and auto correct notices, lol!
So how are my birds getting a double modifier when I know one parent hasn't had frizzle genes for at least six generations?

 

[Bunnylady]

If the birds don't have frizzle genes to modify, you can't track the modifier gene, but that doesn't mean that the birds don't have it. Recessives can lurk for many generations before the right pairing brings them to your attention.

I once bought a pedigreed Harlequin rabbit doe that had an ancestor that came from a breeder that apparently had done an out cross to a New Zealand White some time in the past. Everything on the pedigree had the Harlequin pattern. I bred that rabbit to a couple of other rabbits, and kept some of the offspring, which I then bred to other rabbits. A couple of generations further along, I bred a couple of this doe's descendents together, and there were a couple of all-white babies in the litter. That was at least 5 generations of the gene getting passed on, unseen because the "other" parent just didn't happen to also have a copy of it.

 

[GodofPecking]

pic makes it look like a bulging eye

 

[tajuano]

I have a question about frizzle polish. How do you get it frizzle polish to begin with. Can you breed frizzle cochin to polish and then work with what you got?

 

[Wappoke]

So it's like two copies of the modifier cancel out one copy of the frizzle gene.

Show quality birds only carry one frizzle gene (F) and are heterozygous F/f. They also carry two recessive genes for no modification of the frizzle gene mf/mf. The genotype of a frizzled show quality bird is F/f mf/mf (Hutt,1949)


Hutt,F.B., 1949. Genetics of the Fowl. pp.107-109 McGraw Hill Book Company


My analysis of a few papers on the subject enjoy the read.


When thinking about modifiers, it must be kept in mind that modifiers can be dominant or heterozygous incompletely dominant or even recessive. Modifying alleles that are homozygous dominant may alter a phenotype differently than if the modifying alleles were heterozygous. The incompletely dominant frizzling phenotype and the action of its recessive modifier is a good example of how modifiers can work to produce differing phenotypes; there are 4 different phenotypes that can be expressed:

1.) In the unmodified homozygous frizzled phenotype, every feather is extremely recurved with vanes that are narrow and curled around the rachis; none of the vanes have the normal slightly concaved appearance. The curving of the vanes around the rachis makes the feathers very narrow. This homozygous phenotype imparts a wooly appearance to the bird. The feathers are also brittle and break off easily, over time the fragile state of the feathers produces a bare bird. The wings of the homozygote may contain feathers that are at different stages of growth (Hutt, 1930; Hutt, 1936; Somes, 1990).

2.) In the unmodified heterozygous frizzled phenotype, many feathers recurve toward the head of the bird while others curve up and away from the body producing feathers that are perpendicular to the bird’s skin. Long thin feathers in the male’s saddle and neck hackles may take on the appearance of a curled ribbon. On the apical end (the end away from the skin) of each deformed feather, small sections of the vanes are twisted and partially curled around the rachis of each feather. The wing feathers (less so in the secondary’s) and outer tail feathers exhibit some frizzling (parts of the vanes tend to curl). The inner tail feathers exhibit less frizzling. This phenotype is much appreciated by the poultry fancier. It is the phenotype found in frizzle show birds (Hutt, 1930; Hutt, 1936; Somes, 1990).

3.) In some cases, the modified heterozygous frizzled phenotype looks very much like a non-frizzled phenotype. The modifier inhibits the frizzling allele. In this somewhat normal looking phenotype, the body feathers of the birds exhibit very little recurving or upward curving which is associated with an unmodified phenotype. The inner tail feathers usually have normal concave vanes and the feathers in the wing are usually normal in appearance. If a bird is believed to be frizzled and is closely examined, a few ruffled feathers can be found on the bird’s neck and the outer tail feathers will exhibit a small amount of vane curling. The curling is found on the inner vane away from the feather’s tip. These signs indicate the bird is modified heterozygous frizzled (Hutt, 1930; Hutt, 1936; Somes, 1990).

4.) The modified homozygous frizzled phenotype has a soft and furry appearance; different than the unmodified homozygous frizzle’s wooly look. Each feather is curled. The curling of the vane around the rachis starts away from the end of the feather. The vane at the end of the feather will be narrower but have a more normal appearance. This phenotype is inhibited by the modifier and produces a bird that is different than the unmodified frizzled phenotype (Hutt, 1930; Hutt, 1936; Somes, 1990).



Somes, R.G. Jr., 1990a. Mutations and Major Variants of Plumage and Skin in Chickens.
ed. R.D. Crawford, p.178. Amsterdam:Elsevier

JOURNAL OF GENETICS
Volume 22, Number 1 (1930), 109-127,
The genetics of the fowl
I. The inheritance of frizzled plumage

F. B. Hutt


JOURNAL OF GENETICS
Volume 32, Number 2 (1936), 277-285,
Genetics of the fowl
V. The modified frizzle

F. B. Hutt