Political Ramblings

[rufus]

Any opinions on HR 140?





I think I am for the change they are trying to make but I dont think it is constitutional...

I think I see some holes in this. If a person is born in the US of illegal alien parents, would not this law preclude them from US citizenship? In that case, what citizenship would the child carry? We may find ourselves awash in stateless persons. Think about it and see if you come up with the same result.

 

[thaiturkey]

I can understand that; mass shootings seem to be what spurs most major gun laws. I think, though, that we need to be very, very careful when emotions run high. Statistically speaking, a person is far more likely to be killed in a home invasion, carjacking, or other crime than they are in a mass shooting. I don't believe a ban on a class of weapons would accomplish anything - after all, the Columbine shooting happened during the Clinton ban, and crime was not impacted to any degree.

The costs and benefits, as well as the right to self-defense, have to be weighed very carefully. Consider Senator Feinstein's bill - it would not only ban AR-15s and the like, it would also ban M1 Garands (a WWII antique rifle) and the SKS (a rifle with a ten-round internal magazine) for no good reason. In addition, the wording would also ban the sale of any semi-automatic handgun that uses a detachable magazine, since they are technically capable of accepting magazines of more than ten rounds. If you already own one, you have to pay $200 (per gun) to keep your own property, and you have to go through masses of paperwork to register it as an NFA firearm.

It's an insult to everyone, in my opinion. Thai, I know that you and most other pro-control folks have the best intentions, but I am convinced that Feinstein and her ilk are gleefully standing on the graves of dead kids to further their agenda. To them, it's not about protecting anyone, it's about controlling everyone.

I agree, the shouting is completely unproductive. While I found it hilarious, the Alex Jones interview made me cringe when I thought about it. He did far more harm than good (even if Piers had it coming after his treatment of Larry Pratt). My favorite interview so far has been this one, between Piers and Joshua Boston, where they were both very respectful to each other:

It's a complicated issue and I see no solution that would satisfy everyone at the moment.

I'm sure that there are gun control petitioners in politics whose real aim is to reduce civil liberties in general and the ability of citizens to defend themselves in particular. I have followed the exposure of examples of this for several years. I think that there are also those who rationalise the freedom to own any kind of gun whose real agenda is to have the ability to kill or maim anyone in their way if they get the chance. I remember someone posting on BYC a while ago to say that he would shoot at the feet of any teenagers who made a noise in the street near his home.

My views, like those of anyone else, are based on my own experience. In England, I never felt the need to own a gun for self-defence. I once thought of buying a shotgun of my own for clay pigeon shooting but gave up the idea because the sport is as boring as ten pin bowling. I stuck with fly fishing for trout. In Thailand, the laws and level of gun ownership are different and I'm responding now to that because the country may be facing, at last, a recession with all that means in terms of crime.

I accept, of course, that the gun culture in the US is very different from anything I have experienced other than during my visits there. Nevertheless, I think that the US is at a point where something has to change if those massacres are to be at least reduced in number. Each new one seems to be encouraging someone else to get hold of guns and outdo the previous atrocity. No civilised society should tolerate that but while guns are easy to get hold of it will continue.

 

[rufus]

I think comparing the need for fire arms between countries is an apples and oranges thing. Britain and Thailand are far cries away for the social situation in the US. One Watts riot for me was one too many.

 

[chickened]

Well thank you for that!

I'm not sure how closely connected are gun violence and other forms of violence in the UK. Guns were used mainly by and between drug gangs and the individuals who went on shooting rampages. There weren't many of the latter before the law was changed but gang shootings were becoming frequent. The present level of violence is probably due to changes in society and I might point to the EU labour migration laws as one explanation for that. The banning of rapid fire guns and then hand guns was principally intended to reduce the chances of more massacres.

Knives are less likely to be used in mass killings than rapid fire guns. Mass killings seem to be the topic of debate in the US at the moment so comparing guns with knives isn't really relevant.

Something I notice on my infrequent trips home is that people feel generally safe at home, school, university and work but are at risk during the hours of darkness in a few inner city areas where crime figure are high. The answer for individuals is not to go to those areas at night. In fact, they are so unappealing that there is no good reason to do so.

There's no simple, single solution to gun violence in any country. I respect anyone who recognises that there is a problem and is thinking about what might be done to reduce it. Shouting down those with different views from ones own is immature and unproductive and the examples we see of that on the TV at the moment are becoming tiresome.

Illegal guns are still around, of course, and so are illegal knives. Perhaps the numbers will decrease in time as such weapons are traced.

I'll look closely at your interesting link when I have more time.

One if not the main reason Americans are so defensive of their gun rights is we get to see the failure and step by step sequential bans that are used in the UK and other countries that have no 2nd to protect that right. What are they considering over there now... knives... what is next? If crime rates would show that these laws work the antigun crowd here would have a chance.

I think sensible solutions to deal with violence has a real chance in the US but bans and trying to trump the 2nd is DOA. We have many bad laws here that only reduce opportunity to those that abide by the law. Taking a look at how violence is displayed to our youth would be a good place to start but with folks like the ACLU saying it is all about free speech and freedom of expression and how our liberal courts have said stuff like porn is art and perversion is a protected act I am not sure it is going to be easy or be possible.

 

[rebelcowboysnb]

If you already own one, you have to pay $200 (per gun) to keep your own property, and you have to go through masses of paperwork to register it as an NFA firearm.

It also bans transfer so when you die they must be destroyed..

 

[thaiturkey]

I think comparing the need for fire arms between countries is an apples and oranges thing. Britain and Thailand are far cries away for the social situation in the US. One Watts riot for me was one too many.

Is comparing today's needs with those in the 1700s more relevant than attempting to learn from what is happening elsewhere in the world today? Other countries have or have had similar problems to the ones you have in the US and it's worth comparing if you have an open mind.

 

[rebelcowboysnb]

Quote: Yes, that is the point of the law. They are trying to end people sneaking over the border to have babies.
Generally no matter where you are born, you can claim citizenship in the country that your parents are citizens.

 

[chickened]

Is comparing today's needs with those in the 1700s more relevant than attempting to learn from what is happening elsewhere in the world today? Other countries have or have had similar problems to the ones you have in the US and it's worth comparing if you have an open mind.

Actually massacres were more common in the 1700's here and guns were much easier to obtain and yet the cry to get rid of them was virtually nonexistent. I get your point though.

 

[thaiturkey]

One if not the main reason Americans are so defensive of their gun rights is we get to see the failure and step by step sequential bans that are used in the UK and other countries that have no 2nd to protect that right. What are they considering over there now... knives... what is next? If crime rates would show that these laws work the antigun crowd here would have a chance.

I think sensible solutions to deal with violence has a real chance in the US but bans and trying to trump the 2nd is DOA. We have many bad laws here that only reduce opportunity to those that abide by the law. Taking a look at how violence is displayed to our youth would be a good place to start but with folks like the ACLU saying it is all about free speech and freedom of expression and how our liberal courts have said stuff like porn is art and perversion is a protected act I am not sure it is going to be easy or be possible.

One argument seems to be that knives cannot be used by one person to create a massacre but rapid fire guns can.

I agree that any argument that guns should be banned but violent movies and video games cannot be banned because that would infringe personal liberties is fallacious. Societies all have laws that restrict personal liberties for the common good. Frequent gun massacres indicate that some more civil liberties need to be reviewed. The complexity of this issue in the US is vexing, I can see, and I hope that a solution acceptable to the majority is found, The possibility seems to be that obstinacy in Washington will force a solution that creates more problems.

 

[chickened]

One argument seems to be that knives cannot be used by one person to create a massacre but rapid fire guns can.

I agree that any argument that guns should be banned but violent movies and video games cannot be banned because that would infringe personal liberties is fallacious. Societies all have laws that restrict personal liberties for the common good. Frequent gun massacres indicate that some more civil liberties need to be reviewed. The complexity of this issue in the US is vexing, I can see, and I hope that a solution acceptable to the majority is found, The possibility seems to be that obstinacy in Washington will force a solution that creates more problems.

There was a mass killing in China where knives was used. I googled knife killings in China and 3 came up with 7 to 20 per incident.

My fear is that we will just slap a bandaid law on guns that makes some happy and feel good and in actuality do nothing effective to deal with violence. It seems that is what we usually do... to our detriment.