Political Ramblings

[rufus]

My point was actually that many people have said stuff like people on foodstamps drive a nicer car than I do, have nicer clothes than I do, etc...

You can't tell a person's circumstances by their clothing or car or by what they buy at the grocery store. I don't smoke, but I buy a lot of cigarettes. I drive a poor old lady shopping, so she is getting out of a nice car. I give away very nice clothing, so the people look well dressed. Appearances are deceptive. And that is what all these stories are; they are about who, and what the poor appear to be. This is often filtered through the lens of our own prejudices and opinions.

In terms of dealing with poverty, most people would rather ignore the facts and look through own tinted glasses.

And do you have a solution?

 

[chickened]

Again, using my unemployment experience, the office is 30 miles away - 60 miles round trip. Since gas has been about $4/gallon over the summer, it would cost me $12/week to get that free money. Or I could take the bus...well...3 buses and spend $8 and most of the day. It also wouldn't have been any more incentive to find a job.

Your employer paid in to UI on your behalf it is owed to you and that is not the same as someone who is a habitual user of the system. In fact the abusers ruin it for those that actually need welfare and one way they ruin it is by creating a stereotypical image of welfare recipients and then the working class begins putting all of them in that category. It is like poachers and legitimate hunters the poachers steal from those that play by the rules.

 

[chickened]

And do you have a solution?

I do... I have found that once it is resolved that a person MUST work very few are satisfied with minimum wage and that is usually enough of a motivator to convince most people to better themselves. When we say you do not have to work that ends all motivation... some people need a foot to the behind, that is reality.

 

[ChickensRDinos]

I do... I have found that once it is resolved that a person MUST work very few are satisfied with minimum wage and that is usually enough of a motivator to convince most people to better themselves. When we say you do not have to work that ends all motivation... some people need a foot to the behind, that is reality.

Unfortunately I think education is a big factor here though. You can work extremely hard and never improve your station if you are under-educated. And this isn't just secondary education - I mean everything down to the very basics.

If we are going to pour money into anything, it should be early childhood education and equal access to it. It has profound lifelong effects. Foundations are extremely important. Success is a learned behavior.

 

[thaiturkey]

Unfortunately I think education is a big factor here though. You can work extremely hard and never improve your station if you are under-educated. And this isn't just secondary education - I mean everything down to the very basics.

If we are going to pour money into anything, it should be early childhood education and equal access to it. It has profound lifelong effects. Foundations are extremely important. Success is a learned behavior.

Whilst I agree that education is important for any individual, it's not a guarantee of an improved 'station', if by that you mean material wealth. There are educated people who don't want material wealth or whose job doesn't attract it and there are illiterate people who are very wealthy.

'Success', if again you mean acquired material wealth, may be a drive or skill learned in ways other than through formal education.

 

[ChickensRDinos]

Whilst I agree that education is important for any individual, it's not a guarantee of an improved 'station', if by that you mean material wealth. There are educated people who don't want material wealth or whose job doesn't attract it and there are illiterate people who are very wealthy.

'Success', if again you mean acquired material wealth, may be a drive or skill learned in ways other than through formal education.

I completely agree. But, on the whole, education gives you options. You have choices. You have access. A lot of people on this thread seem to be arguing that a majority of lower income people are deciding to be lazy and abuse the system and that they should just decide to pick themselves up. I do not think the option is so easy as it sounds.

Of course there are examples of people doing this. I know some. And of course you can list examples of people who genuinely abuse the system. I also know one of those. But, I think these are both extremes and don't represent the whole. There are a wide variety of circumstances in which one may need government assistance and a lot of factors that contribute to who is poor and why.

The sad truth is the in order for some people to make more money others have to make less. If you look at wealth distribution in the US, that is certainly the case. To then turn around and blame the poor for their poverty is an impressive piece of political PR, and a really depressing one.

 

[thaiturkey]

I completely agree. But, on the whole, education gives you options. You have choices. You have access. A lot of people on this thread seem to be arguing that a majority of lower income people are deciding to be lazy and abuse the system and that they should just decide to pick themselves up. I do not think the option is so easy as it sounds.

Of course there are examples of people doing this. I know some. And of course you can list examples of people who genuinely abuse the system. I also know one of those. But, I think these are both extremes and don't represent the whole. There are a wide variety of circumstances in which one may need government assistance and a lot of factors that contribute to who is poor and why.

The sad truth is the in order for some people to make more money others have to make less. If you look at wealth distribution in the US, that is certainly the case. To then turn around and blame the poor for their poverty is an impressive piece of political PR, and a really depressing one.

We are very much in agreement.

The frequent quoting of some story of welfare system abuse as if it discredits the whole system is tiresome. I come from a country where a very sophisticated welfare system has been developed since just after WWII and is still being developed. There have been, and always will be, cheats and the agents and lawmakers are constantly tightening the loopholes. For the life of me, I don't see why the many genuine cases should be denied help because of a few fraudsters.

 

[newfoundland]

Fair point well made chickenRdinos and thaiturkey.

 

[mom'sfolly]

The other point is that working a minimum wage job still puts you below the poverty level. Minimum wage for 2000 hours a year is $14,500, well below the poverty line in the US. If you have younger children, you must pay daycare out of that money, as well as all the other needs for life. The average price of a one bedroom apartment nationally is $700/month. Minimum wage simply doesn't go very far. This is what we call the working poor. Most of the people I see at the local food pantry fit into this catagory. They are bus drivers, daycare workers, nursing home aides, grocery store cashiers, etc.

There are some interesting articles out there about Walmart, welfare and healthcare. Basically, Walmart has policies in place to refer their workers to outside help agencies due to their corporate culture of underpaying workers. It amounts to a strange sort of corporate welfare when it is practiced by the largest employer in the US.

 

[chickened]

It would seem then the answer is to raise the minimum wage to above the poverty level. then there would be no excuse or ned for welfare and the poor would go away.