Poop board design help

[ldirk7]

New chicken owner over here! My new coop is about chicken ready, and I have poop board questions. My coop is Wichita style, and has 2 roosts going horizontal in the coop that are at the same height. I think I am out of space to do suspended poop boards like a lot of people do due to the nesting boxes. I was thinking of doing dog crate trays (like these, or perhaps something else with higher sides https://www.amazon.com/Replacement-MidWest-Crates-Durable-Crate/dp/B0002NNWDW?th=1&psc=1) and having them on the ground.

Is this idea even worth it, will they chickens just walk in it and spread the poop everywhere? I think I would need to put sand or something in it to make it something the chickens will be able to walk in, and scoop it like a litter box maybe? Does having a tray with sand in it reduce my indoor space for the chickens? I live in a cold climate and there will be days when the chickens are in the coop I think.

I’m thinking I might be out of luck, poop board-wise but I’d love if there are any ideas out there.

 

[Chad Oftedal]

So, I'll just throw out some thoughts here from looking at your setup. But first, one question would be, how many birds are you planning to have in there, and what breed(s)? I ask this for size and space considerations.

OK, from looking at the picture, I'm guessing we're close to 4 foot wide by 8 foot deep to the back of the coop there? The roost bars as configured look to be about 30" high. For the space that you have in there, that's fairly high. A rough guide is a landing zone that is about double the length of the height of the roost bar. So, say your bar is about 30", that'd translate to 60" deep of open floor space for them to jump off the bar and land. As young birds, they can adapt more easily to a tighter space, but if they are a heavier bodied, full grown bird, and a few years older, they will really welcome that extra room to get down. While birds will naturally tend to roost up as high as they can get, in a coop, they don't need to be really high up. Just some distance up off the floor is fine.

Back to your question about poop boards in this pictured configuration. I don't think there really is a viable way that would work long term. I think you're on the right track that they'd step all through it and kick it around if you had pans on the floor.

If it were me, I'd remove the closest roost bar that we can see in the picture. Then, I'd frame in and make a solid interior wall out of that furthest back nest box on the right hand side as we look at this picture. Even if you had 5-6 birds, they'd only use two boxes at most, and probably just one. I have 7 birds, and they rarely have issue with a single box. You could close up that one, and still have two available which is plenty. OK, so if you walled in that far nest box on the right, then you should be able to do a couple things: 1) fashion a rectangular tray (by looking at the picture, we'd maybe be 2 foot deep by 4 foot wide) that attaches to both sides and the back wall (I'd mount it between 20-24" up off the floor). 2) with the tray in place, you could then run one 2x4 roost bar from wall to wall, over the top of the tray - I'd have the bar about 12" forward of the back wall and maybe 4" above the tray. That should put you right over the center of the board. The birds hop up from the floor to the front edge of the poop board/tray, then they hop/walk up from there on to the roost bar. This is essentially what I have in my 8'x8' and it works great for them.

Also, just because you're walling off that back nest box doesn't mean you loose the functionality. I presume you are collecting the eggs by raising the top of the nest boxes from the outside of the coop. With the one walled off on the inside, you'd still have access to it from the outside. It could make a real handy storage cubby for chicken related supplies.

 

[Sally PB]

Here are a couple of thoughts.

You can lower your roosts by quite a bit, actually. The roosts need to be higher than the bottom of the nest box, not the top. Since they're exterior boxes, only the bottom is available for them to be on/in.

Before I built my poop tray, I used some boot caddy things (what you put wet boots on in the winter to catch the snow melt) under the roost. Get one that is as flat as possible; you don't need all the grooves and contours that would hold the water from boots, you just need a surface with a lip around it. I put about 1/4-1/2" of PDZ on the trays, and most of the poop landed there. Easy to scoop with a cat litter box scooper/sifter.

This worked great in the warm months, as the chickens were outside most of the time. Once they were inside in the cold months, they did walk on the mats and through the poop, and scratched bedding onto the mats. It was less effective, but still better than not having them, because it did contain the poop that they did on the roost at night. The PDZ dries it out pretty quickly.

 

[ldirk7]

@Chad Oftedal thanks for your reply!

I have 5 chickens right now, the largest being a light brahma. The rest are RIR, buff orpington, barred rock, and mottled houdan. We have thoughts of having up to 8 in the coop after some time has passed (like, a few years), which is why we have the 3 boxes and 2 roosting bars. And yes it's 4x8! The roosting bars are currently about 24 inches off of the ground or so.

I totally misinterpreted the "higher than the nesting boxes" instruction.... that is why my bars are so high. I thought they had to be above the top, I didn't realize that meant higher than the bottom. I feel silly! I will lower them I think.

One question that has been unclear to me about poop boards- so if I did your proposed solution, we would have a 2' x 4' board hovering off the ground, that the chickens couldn't fit under. Does this "reduce" the amount of space in your coop for your chicken math/space per bird, since they can no longer walk freely in that space? And would the one 4' roost bar be enough for 5 birds, or 8 in the future? I thought that I read 1' per bird.

 

[ldirk7]

@Sally PB thank you!

I misinterpreted the "above the nesting boxes" instruction for roosting bars, I thought that meant above the top. I will likely lower them tonight before they move in.

Sounds like the trays might be better than nothing, so if I can't get the poop boards to work I could try it. Thanks!

 

[Chad Oftedal]

@Chad Oftedal thanks for your reply!


One question that has been unclear to me about poop boards- so if I did your proposed solution, we would have a 2' x 4' board hovering off the ground, that the chickens couldn't fit under. Does this "reduce" the amount of space in your coop for your chicken math/space per bird, since they can no longer walk freely in that space? And would the one 4' roost bar be enough for 5 birds, or 8 in the future? I thought that I read 1' per bird.

Great questions - you're doing your homework ahead of time, and that's awesome to see!

So, if you build that tray for the far back section of the coop, it looks like it would be about 4 foot wide, by 2 foot deep. We're saying, then, to attach it to that back area about 20-24" off the ground. You essentially have a "shelf" in that back section. Now, the roost bar (2' x 4' board) is going to be above the poop board, and only 12" from the far back wall. Technically, yes, they might not be able to easily get under it when walking around on the top of the poop board, but mine still do when they're being silly, and since they can hop up on it with ease, it doesn't seem to matter. I've included a picture here that I think will go a long way in better explaining what I'm trying to do in words. In the picture there, my poop board is 2 feet deep, by 8 feet wide. The roost bar is centered over it - say 6" above. Height probably doesn't matter too much there. Whatever makes it easiest to scoop under. What I'm suggesting is you'd build this same basic design, though you'd be 2 foot deep by 4 foot wide to fit your space.

Really good question on the 1' rule for the roost bar. That is indeed the suggestion. In my experience, in practice, they scooch themselves in and become snuggle buddies. Some sit up on the roost, some just lay on the board. Everyone seems happy. I have 7 birds, and they have about 16 linear feet of roost bar space (another poop board, just like the one you see in the picture, is running against the full length of the other wall. Looks like an "L"). So, even though they have 16 feet, they use about 3-4. Now, they have that choice, and that's what they choose to do. In your setup, with 8 birds, they'd be a bit tight by necessity. It probably would come down to flock dynamics - how well your birds are getting along - to whether having 8 in your size coop is comfortably doable. Taking the roost bar out of the equation, using the number guides, you'd be at max open floor space with 8 as well. I overbuilt on size so that there was extra headroom to spare. For my flock, the 1 foot per bird rule would be the one I would be most comfortable "bending" a bit. They get along well and could space themselves out much more, but don't choose to do so. That's just my birds, though. The other rules - height of the roost bars, landing space available, etc, I've definitely had to adjust for them. I think they are really good guides to go by, and usually, people that do have fewer issues.

 

[Sally PB]

I totally misinterpreted the "higher than the nesting boxes" instruction.... that is why my bars are so high. I thought they had to be above the top, I didn't realize that meant higher than the bottom. I feel silly!

No, don't feel silly! You're asking questions, and that is a very good thing.

I think @Chad Oftedal has a great idea, to move the roost farther back in the coop. Then they have more landing room and your roost can be high enough to put a poop board under it. My poop board is approximately 18" off the floor of the coop, and the chickens can walk underneath, so no loss in floor space. The roost is 8" above that. How tall is your coop in the back? Is there enough vertical space to think about doing it that way?

Roost space, lengthwise. I have 4 chickens in what was a 4x8 coop, with one roost across the 4' dimension. In the winter, the chickens would cuddle together and take up about half of that. Now that it's summer and hot, they spread out.

I say it "was" a 4x8 coop; we enlarged it this spring because, well chicken math, ya know? I needed more chickens. So we added on about 14.5 square feet (couldn't go the full 8' length for construction reasons, no matter), and I will be adding 3 more pullets in a few weeks. I know the grown ups won't let the young uns roost with them, so I will need a second roost. Just throwing that out; since you're already thinking ahead, you might want to think about that too.

Here is some more stuff to think about, in case you haven't. You're in Montana (thanks for putting that in your profile!), and your winters are pretty harsh, I bet. How much ventilation do you have? The minimum suggested is 1 square foot, open 24/7/365 per chicken. More chickens = more ventilation needed. "Open" means covered with hardware cloth for safety from predators.

Heat and ammonia (from the droppings) both rise. The ventilation should be above the birds' heads when they are on the roost. That way, cold winter winds don't blow directly on the birds at night. Some of the ventilation in my addition won't be above the birds. It's under the eaves, but I plan to put some furnace filter baffle material over it. It will still have an exchange of air, but stop winds from coming in directly.

 

[ldirk7]

@Chad Oftedal @Sally PB Thank you both, this is really helpful. A follow up question- the back of my coop is where the roof is the lowest. Is there any reason why I wouldn't be able to put the roosting bars more toward the front of the coop? Do chickens know front vs. back? There is a bit more space there, then easy access to clean if I can manage the poop boards. I get that the door is there so I wouldn't be able to attach it on that wall, I would need to think of a different way.

@Sally PB So- am I missing something with the "space per chicken"? I thought I had read 4 sq. feet per bird, so I thought 4' x 8' would be ok for (future) 8 birds. Really, I am not in any rush to expand on our number of chickens, the thought process was more of well, I think 3 chicks is better than 2 so that they have their little flock to help each other out, and we were thinking a good 3-4 years down the road to try to space out egg laying a bit- my ladies will get to live out their retirement with me.

I'll attach some photos of our ventilation- now that I am moving the roosting bars lower I'm feeling much, much better about it because they will be below majority of the windows for drafts in the winter, and I can keep more windows open. On my climate in Montana- much of the winter is a pleasant 10-35 degrees (living here gives you a warped sense of a pleasant winter), and in the winter, because of our higher elevation, the sun really makes a huge difference in how that temp feels. But we will a few weeks, usually not in a row, of just bitchin cold, -20 or below. Then almost the same in the summer- very pleasant temperatures majority of the time, about 2 weeks total or less with temps above 90. Then in the summer, we also cool down a lot in the night, usually between 40-55 degrees at night even on the 90+ degree days. Not many homes here have air conditioning for that reason. Another climate specific item is that we are very, very dry. Not a lot of humidity happening here at all. I get that chickens create their own humidity, but it has to help a little living in a dry climate?

Front door of coop has an open air vent at the top (highest point) and planned window.

This is the side that faces the run- open vent at the top, then the middle space is a planned window, and the hole at the bottom is the hen door (now complete)

This is the nesting box side, this one is a planned window. This is our prevailing wind side so I do not want open vents on this side.

And then finally the back. I am thinking this one could now become an open air vent instead of a window, if my roosting bars are below. It is the lowest side of the coop though, so I am unsure on if that is a wise idea, but its also blocked from the fence behind it from any wind/weather. Just the cold that would enter.

Overall coop:

 

[aart]

A follow up question- the back of my coop is where the roof is the lowest. Is there any reason why I wouldn't be able to put the roosting bars more toward the front of the coop? Do chickens know front vs. back? There is a bit more space there, then easy access to clean if I can manage the poop boards. I get that the door is there so I wouldn't be able to attach it on that wall, I would need to think of a different way.

It needs to be where you can reach it easily every day.
Can be attached to the side walls.
I'd rest it on cleats, with maybe one screw to tack it down, so it can be removed if necessary.

 

[Sally PB]

So- am I missing something with the "space per chicken"? I thought I had read 4 sq. feet per bird, so I thought 4' x 8' would be ok for (future) 8 birds.

No, you have it right. More room gives you more options, however.

Here's why I really felt an addition to my coop was necessary.

I had 4 birds, and they had had the 32 square feet all to themselves their whole lives. 8 sf each, luxury! I knew I wanted more, and ended up with three chicks a couple weeks ago. So I will have 7 chickens. 3 hens, 1 rooster, and 3 pullets.

32/7 = ~4.5 sf per bird; still ok... but... I was worried the big birds might be very hard on the little birds. (Ok, really I want to have room for more chicks next year!) But any way. I am going to build a growout pen in the coop for the littles for their integration phase. I have the space to do that. If I ever am blessed with a broody hen, I would like for her to brood in the coop. I have the space to do that. If I need to make a "chicken jail" to work on behavior issues, I have the space for that.

I had plenty of ventilation for the original 4 in the original coop, but really didn't have an easy way to add more ventilation for more birds. Adding it to the addition was a snap.