Possibility of my son attending school with a murderer

[antiquebuff]

Quote:
The sad reality of it is, your son is probably already going to school with several students capable of that kind of violence. They just haven't shown it yet......most of the murderers/violent criminals you hear about are older, not in elementary school.

Well stated...There has to be more to this story.........

 

[65browneyes]

Just a couple thoughts here........

I've always felt from the start that there HAD to be SO much more to this story, but there was only so much information given via the news media.

Admittedly, I've not followed the story quite as closely as OP probably has. This event happened not that far from me, yet far enough away. St Johns is some distance from here.

My first thoughts when this story broke were of the victims. "Wow, how awful." Then, I realized they'd been murdered in their own home by the 8 year old son of one of the men. "Wow, that's even worse." BUT........what provoked the boy? Parents are apparently divorced. Why did dad have custody if dad was abusive? Where was mom and why didn't we hear of her outrage over the abuse?

When the story first broke, they told of two men murdered by an 8 year old boy. Nothing else. No mom anywhere saying there was abuse, nothing. I understand there has to be some limitations in what is revealed to protect the evidence in the case as well as the minor child involved, but it just seemed 'off' somehow.

The boy had made the decision that he would take no more than 1000 spankings. Honestly, by the time my kids turned 8, they may have had 1000 swats (probably not, my kids are really pretty good kids). Yes, I beleive in swats, not beatings, but swats and YES, there is a HUGE difference.

Who's to say the boy didn't count (or estimate) each and every spanking he'd EVER gotten over the course of his whole 8 year life. Like the first one we all give our kids when they're still in diapers and they are about to touch something hot. We've all said, "no, no, HOT" with a little tap on the hand. Absolutely, there are people who don't "tap" anything without brute force.

What happens if the boy is sent back into mainstream public school and he decides he doesn't like being called "you". What if he decides he's only going to be called "you" 'X' number of times before he kills someone?

Okay, I know, I'm maybe being extreme, but we don't "know" the circumstances here. Only the boy knows it ALL. Who's to say what he's capable of. Would I be willing to risk my child's safety for this child? Probably not.

 

[redhen]

Quote:
noone knows exactly what makes and forms a sociopath...some say there was no bonding when they were an infant and therefore that part of the brain that was still forming then is not ever right,...... and some say theres just something wired wrong in them right from birth..thats its not an enviromental thing...they are just born that way....so, i dont think anyone really knows exactly why/how sociopaths are formed.......they have no "real" empathy for others....they will do what they need to do to satisfy their own needs/wants....and being a sociopath is not a form of mental illness...as in: you cant cry you are crazy and get out of jail.....because sociopaths know exactly what they are doing....they just dont care...its scary...very scary..and i would be worried about my son in that school with him also...

 

[jonesgirl]

OMG.. I feel for the boy, no child should ever ever have to suffer any kind of abuse, especially if it is so bad that it leads them to doing such an unspeakable thing...

BUT being that he is not your child.. I would be worried for my own childs safety.... Abuse victims tend to turn into thier abuser... and being he killed 2 people.... What is going to stop him from not bringing a gun to school when he is getting bullied... This is what is running through my head.. He needs special attention and a lot of help to be able to pull through this and be a normal functioning citizen, and child now...

Good Luck... I would fight it...

 

[Rhett&SarahsMom]

this would be the final straw for me.

There is no way on this earth that my daughter would be attending school with a KNOWN murderer in the building.

It's bad enough here that I have college kids walking around the same building and campus with the K-4 graders. And knowing that every pedophile, sociopath and murderer has their FIRST victim.
Putting my child in a class/school with another child that has already HAD their first and SECOND victim? No way is that gonna happen.

I dont care what a counselor or otherwise "educated" person says they know of a person who commits crimes like this. My gut and mothers instinct count MORE than what a piece of paper says one knows.

Past abuse or not. 1000 spankings or more.
A stable person, even more so a stable CHILD does NOT gun down other humans.

As far as a teacher HAVING to take a kid into their classroom.
My sister is a elementary teacher and was faced with "having" to take a child into her class with a "history"
She went to the school board and to the union and told them NO.
They ended up putting the kid in a "special" school. Two months later?
The kid ended up pulling a knife on another kid in that school and threatening the teacher outside the classroom.

 

[Suess hens]

I just went back to read a lot of the articles from that time. The mother lives in Mississippi, so if he will be living with her, he may not be attending school in Arizona. The father was re-married, and there was a step mother attached to the family, it was stated that she was not home at the time of the shooting...and she has not been mentioned since.
I do have one question. We talk about wanting him to be "normal." but how could he possibly work towards doing this if we don't give him the ability to do what is "normal"? School being one of the main points. School is often the first step to help kids go back to living a "normal" life.

 

[Momma_Cluck]

A child pushing another down a well and watching them drown then walking away is not the same thing as an apparently abused child "snapping" and doing WHAT HE WAS TAUGHT BY THE FATHER (hunting/killing with a rifle) it is a completely different situation, and a totally different mind-set within the child. One was "wired wrong" and probably will never be "right"... the other was systematically pushed and pushed to the breaking point.


As I stated before, I used to be a counselor.. I specialized in "Special needs" kids.... and I do know for a fact there is a HUGE difference... the kid from the well incident is a danger, no question..... the child who shot a family member and another man living with them (???) is not necessarily a threat to anyone. being teased at school is not the same thing as long-term mental, physical or sexual abuse....

As everyone has noted, not all this story was released.
I went to school with a guy who had accidentally shot his little brother with his dads gun when he was in 9th grade.
HOWEVER-- because of the rumors and "1/2-way informed" community, all anyone knew or talked about was that he had MURDERED his little brother. There was talk about "he had said this and that'... and how he was "always jealous"... but how could anyone know-- the family never said these things.
There were the parents with the signs... teachers who treated him like a pariah... kids who kicked, hit and constantly harassed him and called him "killer"....
He never made it to graduation-- he intentionally wrapped his mothers car around a tree in 10th grade. The note he left was in the newspaper... all it said was...
"Mom, Dad... I'm sorry, I love you. I've gone to be with Jamie."

NONE OF US know what actually happened in the 8 year olds case...
as far as I know-- NONE OF US has ever been in this kids position...

Where is the rest of his family? Why isn't anyone clarifying the situation to the public..
WHY is he going to school IN THE SAME COMMUNITY???

He should be in full-time counseling, and the Mother should have immediately MOVED to a new community where people did not know him.

HOWEVER... IT IS the responsibility of the school AND the police to be certain the kid has been fully evaluated and of no threat to others... the psychiatric reports BY LAW have to be made available to the school...

Don't just be afraid ... take action!
Go to the school board and DEMAND that they
(A) get the reports
(B) Thoroughly read and evaluate the danger level of this child
(C) guarantee that THEY take FULL responsibility IN WRITING for the safety of the rest of the children if this particular boy attends the school... Make them post a public notice--
(D)take it to the State board of education if they ignore you...


I am sorry, and I do not mean to be demeaning or rude... but so many times I listen to "outraged" parents going on about the problems with the school system, teachers, or problem students... but RARELY does anyone actually get involved, find out all their options, and get involved in the process.


IT IS OUR JOBS AS PARENTS to not only Fear for our kids and Protect them... but to ensure them the best education available to them...
Yanking a kid from public school is not always the best option for the child...especially if they are an outgoing, social person, and if YOU are not prepared for the needed time and preparation of teaching them yourselves.
In some ways, You are basically punishing THEM for someone else's crimes-- or for your fears.

Get involved, get informed and get what is right for your children!

 

[Rhett&SarahsMom]

normal?

No human being that shoots and kills another is "normal" IMHO
Especially a child that kills TWO people.
That would make the majority of people and kids abnormal.

the kid should be in a school or system where he can be constantly monitored and NOT in a public school system where the "abnormal" kids would be put in danger.
Maybe HIS mom should home school him.
Why should the majority of the parents have to be concerned with the safety of their kids?
Why should they have to be looking into home schooling(which not all parents can do since it would mean one parent possibly leaving a job)
Or putting their children into a private school? The only ones around here are beyond the economic reach of many and/or are Catholic which again, not all families are.

 

[Msbear]

A "normal" life is impossible for him at this point. That event has changed him forever. If it was abuse, I feel for him, but would never sacrifice what I hold dearest to give this boy a "normal" life which just won't happen. Everyone in the that school will be aware of what had happened. Parents will be pulling their kids from school, teachers will be refusing to do their job... And who could really blame them.

We don't know the whole story. Everyone says there has to be abuse. There may not have been any. Maybe he's just not right. Anyway, even if it was abuse, he is changed and maybe capable of the worst violence.

He won't ever be in the same school as my precious, innocent child. I wouldn't even want to explain to my kids what had happened.

It's easy to say give this boy a chance from 4 states away.

ETA: I don't care if the school takes "full responsibility" That is my job

I'll tak full responsibility, thanks

 

[jonesgirl]

Quote:
He's not neccesarilay a threat? Maybe not, but how does anyone really know why he did it? Even if he gets evaluated by the so called "school" that doesn't sit easy with me. No, being teased at school is not the same thing as being abused, but when children go through things like this things like teasing set them off. Is his conscience altered now that he knows he has killed 2 people? Proabably... What will stop him from doing this again?

HOWEVER... IT IS the responsibility of the school AND the police to be certain the kid has been fully evaluated and of no threat to others... the psychiatric reports BY LAW have to be made available to the school...

Don't just be afraid ... take action!
Go to the school board and DEMAND that they
(A) get the reports
(B) Thoroughly read and evaluate the danger level of this child
(C) guarantee that THEY take FULL responsibility IN WRITING for the safety of the rest of the children if this particular boy attends the school... Make them post a public notice--
(D)take it to the State board of education if they ignore you...


I am sorry, and I do not mean to be demeaning or rude... but so many times I listen to "outraged" parents going on about the problems with the school system, teachers, or problem students... but RARELY does anyone actually get involved, find out all their options, and get involved in the process.


IT IS OUR JOBS AS PARENTS to not only Fear for our kids and Protect them... but to ensure them the best education available to them...
Yanking a kid from public school is not always the best option for the child...especially if they are an outgoing, social person, and if YOU are not prepared for the needed time and preparation of teaching them yourselves.
In some ways, You are basically punishing THEM for someone else's crimes-- or for your fears.

Get involved, get informed and get what is right for your children!

You are right it is my job as a parent to determine what is safe for my child... I don't think you are being rude, just stating your opinion, but aren't we as parents taking action when we are voicing our concerns to the school about our children's safety. Because it says on a peice of paper he isn't a threat, I should sleep well an night? Why should I pull my child out of their school because I am in fear of their well being?​