Post Pics Of Orps/ Orpingtons HERE

[fowlman01]

a cochin , some cochins look like feather legged orpingtons..it just depends.

If someone could find a pic of a buff bantam cochin of good quality it would be an interesting comparison. I am saying bantam since I don't think you find a lg fowl looking as round as that brit bird.

Walt

 

[DaveK]

I wasn't intending to argue either. Was responding to the collective idea of the Cochin/Orpington similarity that gets expressed now and again. If timing or wording had anyone feeling singled out or picked on that wasn't the idea and I'm sorry if that may have happened here. I will say that being a show winner does not mean that any one bird would have the approval of even a decent percentage of the judges or breeders. This bird here could be an example. Even to my eye he is sort of a sad sack in comparison to other UK winners who may have been bred to the same ideals, even by the same breeder, but pulled it off differently and, in my opinion, way better. Shows may or may not be an indication of quality and breed type. The judges, like the exhibitors, are only human after all. And General Licensed judges often end up trying to evaluate breeds that they are not completely at ease and familiar with. Like all of us in our endeavors they do their best but that doesn't always mean they get it right.

Would like to clarify that I was not comparing any of the orps pictured in this discussion to a Cochin, but what is winning shows in the UK which aren't like those here. You are correct, I haven't any experience with cochins. Here is a show winner from www.keiths-orps.co.uk to clarify what I was referring to.

Simply clarifying a point, not arguing.

 

[jeremy]

i did see these in england, we dont have anything quite like them here..at least i havnt seen one..if you look at their federal market champion , he looks a little more old school. but a lot of the judges arnt rewarding this type...some are..even my nephew calls them cochiningtons.maybe we could put a side by side pic of this next to a cochin so people could see the strong similarities.

I feel like I have a few hens that come pretty close to this type.

This is the hen from my avatar.



ETA: Her tail doesn't seem to be as "rounded" as the rooster pictured above. I prefer the look of her tail.

 

[fowlman01]

I think this is a very good discussion. The AM folks called Sam Brush the APA Prez on me a few months ago because they did not like what I was saying. lol The people posting here have good responses and good questions. That is what this thread is about. If we all agreed on everything it would turn into one of those "Sally laid an egg today..... I'm in lockdown etc", threads that populate most of this site.

Dave is right on when he says that not all judges know all birds. There are a few really good judges that can judge anything, then there is the majority that know a lot of classes very well and then comes the rest of us.
A good judge will tell the show people what he/she feels comfortable judging. Most judges want to be at ease with the classes they are judging. I have judged pears at fairs...I don't know anything about pears........they asked me if I could do it at the end of the poultry and I thought they were talking about pairs of meat birds which is how they do it in CA. I told them I was not a pear judge and they asked me where I worked and I said at a university....so they said "no problem, you can do it"...so I judged them There were some there that I have never seen before. Bottom line is you pay your money and take your chances [FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]occasionally, but in the end you win some you should not win and lose some you should not lose. These two shows on one day things are producing interesting results, but most of the good birds end up rising to the top...it is just how far they rise.[/FONT]

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Walt[/FONT]

 

[thedragonlady]

I think this is a very good discussion. The AM folks called Sam Brush the APA Prez on me a few months ago because they did not like what I was saying. lol The people posting here have good responses and good questions. That is what this thread is about. If we all agreed on everything it would turn into one of those "Sally laid an egg today..... I'm in lockdown etc", threads that populate most of this site.

Dave is right on when he says that not all judges know all birds. There are a few really good judges that can judge anything, then there is the majority that know a lot of classes very well and then comes the rest of us.
A good judge will tell the show people what he/she feels comfortable judging. Most judges want to be at ease with the classes they are judging. I have judged pears at fairs...I don't know anything about pears........they asked me if I could do it at the end of the poultry and I thought they were talking about pairs of meat birds which is how they do it in CA. I told them I was not a pear judge and they asked me where I worked and I said at a university....so they said "no problem, you can do it"...so I judged them There were some there that I have never seen before. Bottom line is you pay your money and take your chances [FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]occasionally, but in the end you win some you should not win and lose some you should not lose. These two shows on one day things are producing interesting results, but most of the good birds end up rising to the top...it is just how far they rise.[/FONT]

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Walt[/FONT]

Two shows in one day is nuts, and detrimental to anyone wanting to learn much. The good old 2 day shows gave you time to talk to people and learn, not just collect starred wins. Yes, they involve at least one night's motel bill, but you have the time to talk to the people who know, if you'll search them out. Poultry people are the most generous breeders in the world with their knowledge.

 

[fowlman01]

Two shows in one day is nuts, and detrimental to anyone wanting to learn much. The good old 2 day shows gave you time to talk to people and learn, not just collect starred wins. Yes, they involve at least one night's motel bill, but you have the time to talk to the people who know, if you'll search them out. Poultry people are the most generous breeders in the world with their knowledge.

I don't like these one day shows. It is too hectic and as you say, you can't talk with everyone you want to talk to. Some of these shows take me 9 hours to get there, so I go Friday and leave Sunday morning.

Walt

 

[Renie'sPeeps]

And she is a beauty Jeremy

 

[trailblazn]

What age can you start showing them and are there any shows near Temecula, Murrieta Ca area?

 

[lildinkem]

It is nice we can have a civil discussion without pushing each others buttons to get them riled up to push the report button.
The important thing is that "YOU" the breeder/owner of your birds loves the way they look. IF your happy, you will take better care, give more attention, water and time with your birds. Resulting in a longer happier life for all.

Trailblzn most birds are not ready till they hit the 7 to 10 month range depending on the line that bird is from. The hatchery birds tend to be ready sooner. The UK style birds may take up to a year before they reach their peak. one old breeder told me that once a pullet has laid her second egg is when she is ready to show well. OLE TIMERS tend to know their stuff.

 

[aveca]

Jeremy, I LOVE your hen!

we talked a lot about this in he past but when america became industrialized people left the farm...worked for corporations , and many breeds fell almost into extinction..meanwhile the brits were working on better lacing , meatier birds that from my little experience with them lay a baseball size egg that 2 eggs could almost make a feed the family size omlet..you almost have to use a goose tray to set them...from family experience, they much like white skinned fine texture meat..america was eating commercially produced yellow legged birds..in italy thosewomen make a meal to die for out of maran the prefered bird on many farms there..i appreciate the english birds very much and i get why you all like them..

i thing also the sop is extreamly important, it concerns me a bit that if judges are not going to be strict about it , then it will become null and void..if a person spends their time tryimg to meet it and somone is selecting lesser birds on a fancy then that really worries me.. guess its that way in many things from horse to dog to chicken breeding. I have a freind that raised a paticular breed of horse, long story short..the animals were chronically crippled for a fad or what somone thought they should look like, they also carried a lethal gene.certian people were called out for that much later on.....
we were talking about art as an example..i have been in art shows from antalope valley calif to kansas city to datona fla and keep a small web site about that..Art is subjective..you give the judge te goods or requirements..then you step past that to something that makes them say wow when they walk by..