Post Pics Of Orps/ Orpingtons HERE

[lildinkem]

I like him

nice deep breast to him

I asked Doug (another APA judge and Buff Orp breeder) this past weekend. And Doug convinced me I do not need this male. So, he got culled. I am breeding from my best Buff cock and my best Buff hen for the start of this season. And now put my 2 Buff hens I got from Fred in with that cock. So, I do not need to breed from more then one cock and 2 or 3 hens.
I am new still to the hobby and follow the example of the best Orp breeder I know and how he breeds. And this is how to do it.

 

[fowlman01]

Let me say....It is very difficult to get good pictures of chickens, so comparing pictures is a lot different than comparing birds in a show. How many times have you seen a picture of a bird that you have actually seen and thought..."that is a very poor picture of that bird"?.

The bottom line with me is: I don't care what any breeder or judge says...does it meet the description of the APA SOP? Breeders and judges are people with different perspectives....many times biased by what they raise and what they are willing to overlook as it relates to the Standard. Judges many times are biased by what they judge or what they see win. I have seen alot of birds win that should not have won. I have won with birds that should not have won if the SOP was followed. There is a well respected judge out here that judged a class of Orps in Utah The Utah guys have some very good buff Orps. Well this judge judged the Orps and later that night they brought in another judge to re judge the class because the original well respected judge picked some very odd looking Orps.

The reason the well respected judge picked these strange Orps is that he had never seen a good one...he had only seen hatchery Orps.......and probably did not read the SOP to brush up on them. Many judges lose sight of the real description of the breeds and go by what they see winning.

BTW; Paul Montieth is a very good judge and I have a lot of respect for his judging.. Just mentioning this as his name was mentioned a couple posts ago.

I don't expect to change peoples opinions on Orps, just to put out here what the APA SOP actually says as opposed to breeding/showing fads. People don't always want to hear what I have to say, but for at least now, I am the person who officially represents the APA Standards. I am just posting what it says and there is no wiggle room when it says you need to see the hock.

What folks do with their birds is up to them, I just don't want us to get in the position the Brits are in where the judges are picking birds that don't meet their own Standard. How in the world could a judge pick that buff ? just posted here.....whatever it is, when their Standard is almost the same as ours? I don't want that happening here.

Walt

 

[lildinkem]

Let me say....It is very difficult to get good pictures of chickens, so comparing pictures is a lot different than comparing birds in a show. How many times have you seen a picture of a bird that you have actually seen and thought..."that is a very poor picture of that bird"?.

The bottom line with me is: I don't care what any breeder or judge says...does it meet the description of the APA SOP? Breeders and judges are people with different perspectives....many times biased by what they raise and what they are willing to overlook as it relates to the Standard. Judges many times are biased by what they judge or what they see win. I have seen alot of birds win that should not have won. I have won with birds that should not have won if the SOP was followed. There is a well respected judge out here that judged a class of Orps in Utah The Utah guys have some very good buff Orps. Well this judge judged the Orps and later that night they brought in another judge to re judge the class because the original well respected judge picked some very odd looking Orps.

The reason the well respected judge picked these strange Orps is that he had never seen a good one...he had only seen hatchery Orps.......and probably did not read the SOP to brush up on them. Many judges lose sight of the real description of the breeds and go by what they see winning.

BTW; Paul Montieth is a very good judge and I have a lot of respect for his judging.. Just mentioning this as his name was mentioned a couple posts ago.

I don't expect to change peoples opinions on Orps, just to put out here what the APA SOP actually says as opposed to breeding/showing fads. People don't always want to hear what I have to say, but for at least now, I am the person who officially represents the APA Standards. I am just posting what it says and there is no wiggle room when it says you need to see the hock.

What folks do with their birds is up to them, I just don't want us to get in the position the Brits are in where the judges are picking birds that don't meet their own Standard. How in the world could a judge pick that buff ? just posted here.....whatever it is, when their Standard is almost the same as ours? I don't want that happening here.

Walt

Walt everything you said I agree with. Judges are like people, they all have their own opinions.
Raising orps to the SOP is easier said then done. I have yet to see the perfect orp in any variety. Heck the best example of an Orp I produced last season was not of a standard variety. I wish it was, but it was not. I still shown that bird under what variety I presumed it to be. IF I could have painted it a standard color, I would have. Just because one may have 2 great birds not always mean they will produce equal or better quality. That is why we all need to hatch out a 100 to get just, IF WE'RE LUCKY, a trio of quality to use next season. I kept none of my Buffs I hatched out last season. none met what I expected to be using. So, I reloaded my Orp stock and am trying again.
I think when it comes to overseas Orps, the fact the better breeders in the UK are now importing birds from Germany may say more of what shape the UK breeders are in then any judge over there would say. I know many here have a true love for that look. Which is okay and dandy for me. I TRY to breed to our APA SOP. I think we here have good stock to work with in all varieties. We just need breeders to know how to use what we have to better the quality that is available to the new to the hobby folks. There is at best a half dozen great White Orp breeders here in North America. And I hope that will only grow as our hobby expands to meet the demand for our Orps.
I definitely agree. Paul is one of the nicest folks I met in our hobby. He has good taste in birds and breeds. IF not for the USPS taking 6 days for a "PRIORITY" Faverolle egg shipment I would not be the one incubating some of Dick Boulanger Light Salmon eggs, and it would be Paul. So, I will do my best to hatch and grow out any of them that are fertile. And hope to give Paul what ever he wants from my stock.

 

[fowlman01]

Walt everything you said I agree with. Judges are like people, they all have their own opinions.
Raising orps to the SOP is easier said then done. I have yet to see the perfect orp in any variety. Heck the best example of an Orp I produced last season was not of a standard variety. I wish it was, but it was not. I still shown that bird under what variety I presumed it to be. IF I could have painted it a standard color, I would have. Just because one may have 2 great birds not always mean they will produce equal or better quality. That is why we all need to hatch out a 100 to get just, IF WE'RE LUCKY, a trio of quality to use next season. I kept none of my Buffs I hatched out last season. none met what I expected to be using. So, I reloaded my Orp stock and am trying again.
I think when it comes to overseas Orps, the fact the better breeders in the UK are now importing birds from Germany may say more of what shape the UK breeders are in then any judge over there would say. I know many here have a true love for that look. Which is okay and dandy for me. I TRY to breed to our APA SOP. I think we here have good stock to work with in all varieties. We just need breeders to know how to use what we have to better the quality that is available to the new to the hobby folks. There is at best a half dozen great White Orp breeders here in North America. And I hope that will only grow as our hobby expands to meet the demand for our Orps.
I definitely agree. Paul is one of the nicest folks I met in our hobby. He has good taste in birds and breeds. IF not for the USPS taking 6 days for a "PRIORITY" Faverolle egg shipment I would not be the one incubating some of Dick Boulanger Light Salmon eggs, and it would be Paul. So, I will do my best to hatch and grow out any of them that are fertile. And hope to give Paul what ever he wants from my stock.

I have seen you post some very good birds, so you seem to be on the right track. There is no perfect Orp...never has been and probably never will be one. I have been thinking about this situation this morning and rather than ask people to read and understand the quality of feather, I will just say this. "If you can't see the hock, it is not correct to the APA Standard". That is what it says and that is simple to understand. What judges do with that info is something I can't control.
I have heard some British Orp people tell me that it is OK if you can see one and a half inches of leg. That is not in the APA Standard.....that is something they believe cuz they read it online (if you read it online it is true...at least until someone calls you on it) or that is what some "breeder" said. Personally I don't think of a lot of people as breeders, but that is just me. Most are propagators and want the birds to look like what they are propagating.

Walt.

Walt

 

[lildinkem]

I have seen you post some very good birds, so you seem to be on the right track. There is no perfect Orp...never has been and probably never will be one. I have been thinking about this situation this morning and rather than ask people to read and understand the quality of feather, I will just say this. "If you can't see the hock, it is not correct to the APA Standard". That is what it says and that is simple to understand. What judges do with that info is something I can't control.
I have heard some British Orp people tell me that it is OK if you can see one and a half inches of leg. That is not in the APA Standard.....that is something they believe cuz they read it online (if you read it online it is true...at least until someone calls you on it) or that is what some "breeder" said. Personally I don't think of a lot of people as breeders, but that is just me. Most are propagators and want the birds to look like what they are propagating.

Walt.

Walt

Walt I need to find the link. There is a couple of brothers in Scotland as I remember who raise their Orps to the true UK standard. You can clearly see the legs of their birds. They worry more about type and tail quality. Decent size heads on their birds. I exchanged a few emails with one of them. Very nice fella. He said to work on type first, then the tails. And then start tweeking the rest of the bird to the standard you like. He had Orps do very well in shows over there. Nothing like the UK lines we see here today. I think you would like his line compared to most you see over there.

 

[aveca]

Walt..i do want to hear what you have to say..its important to a lot of us. i skip the petty stuff and listen to you..i cant get better if im not shown the way..and that is my goal, i wont stray away from that ..this breed is pretty new to me..i have had australorps for over 25 years..didnt show the first 15 yrs.i have a lot to learn..i have BBs BVs ect...with the australorps but im just in love with these orps..striving to be the best i can be..from the ol dressage background, i compete against no one but me..everything else is petty ..its my own score i work on..so i do hope they follow sop because its useless if they dont..
i
showed an aussie for a couple years, he wasnt the best and i knew it, he was good but he wasnt great, he had a very good eye, one of the best out there, but im smart enough to know its a lot more than just how nice his head and eye are..there are a lot more parts to add up..he didnt add up..but being there at shows with him side by side with the winner helped me see where i needed to go..i dont care if i win or loose, i want to learn what makes a great egg layer or chicken sandwich..
thi
s year i think im going to have some pretty good birds to take out..including australorp pullet and cockeral..will i beat bob whitneys australorps? no way..but im taking them anyway, they are a step up for me , every year they get a little better

 

[aveca]

i did see these in england, we dont have anything quite like them here..at least i havnt seen one..if you look at their federal market champion , he looks a little more old school. but a lot of the judges arnt rewarding this type...some are..even my nephew calls them cochiningtons.maybe we could put a side by side pic of this next to a cochin so people could see the strong similarities.

Would like to clarify that I was not comparing any of the orps pictured in this discussion to a Cochin, but what is winning shows in the UK which aren't like those here. You are correct, I haven't any experience with cochins. Here is a show winner from www.keiths-orps.co.uk to clarify what I was referring to.

Simply clarifying a point, not arguing.

 

[fowlman01]

Walt I need to find the link. There is a couple of brothers in Scotland as I remember who raise their Orps to the true UK standard. You can clearly see the legs of their birds. They worry more about type and tail quality. Decent size heads on their birds. I exchanged a few emails with one of them. Very nice fella. He said to work on type first, then the tails. And then start tweeking the rest of the bird to the standard you like. He had Orps do very well in shows over there. Nothing like the UK lines we see here today. I think you would like his line compared to most you see over there.

I would be interested in seeing them.

Walt

 

[aveca]

a cochin , some cochins look like feather legged orpingtons..it just depends.

 

[fowlman01]

i did see these in england, we dont have anything quite like them here..at least i havnt seen one..if you look at their federal market champion , he looks a little more old school. but a lot of the judges arnt rewarding it...some are..even my nephew calls them cochiningtons.maybe we could put a side by side pic of this next to a cochin so people could see the strong similarities.

I didn't say I wouldn't help, just said that anyone with Orps should read the plumage part of the breed to have a better understanding of why you don't want fluffy feathers. I can't copy it and put it here. I'm only telling folks what the SOP description of an Orp is. They don't like me in some of the other breed thread either. lol

These brit birds are stunning, but they don't match their own standard. I don't think I could find a SOP Cochin male that would be that deep. Most of what I see here stand too upright. It is an awesome bird from an ornamental perspective and maybe they can lay more than 200 eggs a year..I don't know.

The Ausralorp is another breed that took a turn for the worse for a while there. I watched Bruce Shermans birds lose back length over 10 years or so...that is all it took and I don't think he noticed. You could have shown some as Orps. He has the right kind again now. He is a good breeder. I have known him since he was 9.

Walt