post your chicken coop pictures here!

[MeepBeep]

I wonder what the same 7 year math,would look like applied to protected hawks that have no natural predator.

No natural predators? I fully beg to differ, they do in fact have predators... There are predators that will raid the nest of eggs and young like raccoons, owls and crows... Owls and hawks are also known to fight over nesting locations destroying each others eggs and killing each others chicks... Great Horned owls will even kill adult hawks over territory disputes or food... And young hawks learning to fly spend a great deal of time on the ground and during this ground time they face multiple ground predator threats as well... Read the article linked bellow, it says that 37% of red-tailed hawk perish in the first 10 days of flight training due to predators...

You are really trying to compare apples to pineapples, especially if you ignore that they do have natural predators just like rabbits that keep their population in check...

There are also other HUGE differences that need to be taken into account...

Lets take a look at red-tailed hawks for example...

Hawks only produce one generation of offspring a year...

A female red-tailed hawk only lays/hatches 1-4 eggs a year, when healthy one could estimate 2 babies per pair per year... But, based on the study bellow it appears on average a pair of red-tailed hawks is only producing 0.9 babies a year, so it takes 2+ years to just double the population if there was zero predator loss, now factor in the 37% loss in the first 10 days of flight training and it takes even more years to just double the population...

It also takes those babies 3 years to reach sexual maturity, so there is not going to be any babies from the offspring until the 3rd or 4th year...

The above are night and day differences in reproductive rates and sexual maturity times between rabbits and hawks, as well as offspring numbers per breeding as well as breeding cycles per year...

So lets work the math ignoring the factual predator loss, while basing the reproductive rate of roughly 1 baby a year per pair as found in the study bellow... We will also assume a 50/50 split of male/females... Parenthesis indicate year born...

Year 1 ~ M/F pair
Year 2 ~ M/F pair + F(2) offspring
Year 3 ~ M/F pair + F(2) offspring + M(3) offspring
Year 4 ~ M/F pair + F(2) offspring + M(3) offspring + F(4) offspring
Year 5 ~ M/F pair + F(2) offspring + M(3) offspring + F(4) offspring + M(5) offspring
** At this point the first Female offspring is reaching sexual maturity...
Year 6 ~ M/F pair + F(2) offspring + M(3) offspring + F(4) offspring + M(5) offspring + the F(2) female's F(2)(1) offspring
Year 7 ~ M/F pair + F(2) offspring + M(3) offspring + F(4) offspring + M(5) offspring + F(6) offspring + the F(2) female's F(2)(1) + M(2)(1) offspring
** At this point the second Female offspring is reaching sexual maturity...
Year 8 ~ M/F pair + F(2) offspring + M(3) offspring + F(4) offspring + M(5) offspring + F(6) offspring M(7) + the F(2) female's F(2)(1) + M(2)(1) offspring + F(2)(2) + the F(4) females F(4)(1)

So after 8 years we have a grand total of about 14 hawks 2 originals and 12 offspring (assuming my quick math is right)... Now if we plug in predator loss, say taking the 37% as the study found in the first 10 days of flight and assume lets say another 13% loss from other predators, we end up with give or take about 2 originals and maybe 6 offspring in the 7-8 year breeding cycle period... And that doesn't account for additional loss due to food shortages for example...

Now of course the numbers would be higher if we used the median 2 babies per breeding pair, but then again we only factored in the predator loss from babies in flight training, not those taken as eggs or chicks at other times...

In the end it's really a far fetched and silly analogy to try and make...

http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2001/08/0809_redtailedhawks_2.html

 

[gpeters3]

So,I'm thinking we wouldn't want to range our hawks either i'm glad they have so many controls. I lost 3 birds in 2 weeks, presumably to hawks. Imagine if there were millions...(I know, i don't know for sure it was hawks)

Coyotes were so plentiful a couple of years ago i was afraid to walk out in my yard at night. We had them in the fence row adjacent to my yard within feet of my garden yelping and crying. You can assure me all you want that they wont attack humans but they are just dogs and I've seen what a pack of loose neighbor dogs can do. Get enough of them together and they get really brave.

In any case, I can't hunt them and eliminate them and i can't stand guard all day so I keep them safely locked up. Not as enjoyable but only choice i have in my area. Many neighbors range theirs but they may not worry about losses, don't know. I get a little attached to them and even one loss is too many :-(

I'm not a conservationist in the purist sense, it wouldnt break my heart if all predators suddenly disappeared. I know that isnt a practical solution, i just get so tired of having to protect everything. Identity, car, house even my pockets....

 

[Penny Hen]

This is the new coop I am working on. I have been using lumber from an old dismantled deck and barnwood (mostly oak) from an old shed that I am dismantling. It is astounding to realize what a labor saver plywood is versus building with boards.



This is the framework. After taking the shots I realized I needed to balance the other side with another nest box. Because then I could partition the coop and pen in half if I needed different breeding groups or a grow out pen.



The large center door is for cleaning.


The door from old wooden siding. The egg box with a salvaged bit of trim. Used a floating foundation to level the coop on the hill. Used a broken piece of cinder block under the up hill legs. The space above the eggbox will be a window with hardware cloth on it and a shutter for really cold days.







This is looking across the inside from the other eggbox. You can see the roost bar on the left. This next picture is the floor of the nest box. I have put hardware cloth over that space for ventilaton in the heat of the summer and I am cutting a board to size to fit in in the winter. This will draw cool air from under the ooop to keep it from over heating in August.


Some of you who are really good at carpentry my notice not all the angles are true to 90˚ and the boards haven't been ripped completely straight but my only cutting tool is a circular saw. Most of the boards have to have the nails pounded out and pulled. Then I have to cut the rot off where they were touching the ground. Some of the boards are twisty. It has been a learning experience working with it. I plan to whitewash everything when it is done. I may even make real milk paint because it won't wash off like the plain whitewash. You start with the with the whitewash but add the milk and you can even tint it with color.

 

[gpeters3]

I'll come tend your predator problems.

I've got 5 shotguns, 4 riffles, 2 pistols and idk how many knives, swords, traps and pellet guns.

That's before I include what I'll be getting from my parents when they decide to pass it to me.

I used to be a collector and studied ballistics and hand loaded all my guns. For various reasons i decided I didn't need them any more and sold everything. I've often considered getting a high power pellet gun but haven't fully justified it yet.

Allong with gun ownership comes responsability. It's been my observation over the years that most gun owners aren't qualified to have them. I used to carry one in my car until i discovered how easy it is for a levelheaded, intelligent person to use one inappropriately. That is also the reason it is illegal to carry one hidden unless you get a special license. When i went running years ago, i carried a club for dogs. I asked the police if i could carry a visable handgun to shoot dogs that came after me after being intentionally harrassed by a guard dog owner on my route who would let the dog get within a few feet of me before calling it off and they said i would have to be able prove the dog was actually going to cause harm. Pretty hard to prove once it's dead and some owners might shoot back

Like i said, with ownership comes responsability

 

[gpeters3]

My dad built everything out of old boards and i wound up pulling all the nails for him. We didnt have flat bars or crow bars back then, we used wooden handled hammers. I have several of each now and my favotite is a 3' crow bar. Pull them with one finger Also noticed the drafting 'T' square. They actually make steel ones for drywall up to 8 feet long.

 

[ShrekDawg]

No natural predators? I fully beg to differ, they do in fact have predators... There are predators that will raid the nest of eggs and young like raccoons, owls and crows... Owls and hawks are also known to fight over nesting locations destroying each others eggs and killing each others chicks... Great Horned owls will even kill adult hawks over territory disputes or food... And young hawks learning to fly spend a great deal of time on the ground and during this ground time they face multiple ground predator threats as well... Read the article linked bellow, it says that 37% of red-tailed hawk perish in the first 10 days of flight training due to predators...

You are really trying to compare apples to pineapples, especially if you ignore that they do have natural predators just like rabbits that keep their population in check...

There are also other HUGE differences that need to be taken into account...

Lets take a look at red-tailed hawks for example...

Hawks only produce one generation of offspring a year...

A female red-tailed hawk only lays/hatches 1-4 eggs a year, when healthy one could estimate 2 babies per pair per year... But, based on the study bellow it appears on average a pair of red-tailed hawks is only producing 0.9 babies a year, so it takes 2+ years to just double the population if there was zero predator loss, now factor in the 37% loss in the first 10 days of flight training and it takes even more years to just double the population...

It also takes those babies 3 years to reach sexual maturity, so there is not going to be any babies from the offspring until the 3rd or 4th year...

The above are night and day differences in reproductive rates and sexual maturity times between rabbits and hawks, as well as offspring numbers per breeding as well as breeding cycles per year...

So lets work the math ignoring the factual predator loss, while basing the reproductive rate of roughly 1 baby a year per pair as found in the study bellow... We will also assume a 50/50 split of male/females... Parenthesis indicate year born...

Year 1 ~ M/F pair
Year 2 ~ M/F pair + F(2) offspring
Year 3 ~ M/F pair + F(2) offspring + M(3) offspring
Year 4 ~ M/F pair + F(2) offspring + M(3) offspring + F(4) offspring
Year 5 ~ M/F pair + F(2) offspring + M(3) offspring + F(4) offspring + M(5) offspring
** At this point the first Female offspring is reaching sexual maturity...
Year 6 ~ M/F pair + F(2) offspring + M(3) offspring + F(4) offspring + M(5) offspring + the F(2) female's F(2)(1) offspring
Year 7 ~ M/F pair + F(2) offspring + M(3) offspring + F(4) offspring + M(5) offspring + F(6) offspring + the F(2) female's F(2)(1) + M(2)(1) offspring
** At this point the second Female offspring is reaching sexual maturity...
Year 8 ~ M/F pair + F(2) offspring + M(3) offspring + F(4) offspring + M(5) offspring + F(6) offspring M(7) + the F(2) female's F(2)(1) + M(2)(1) offspring + F(2)(2) + the F(4) females F(4)(1)

So after 8 years we have a grand total of about 14 hawks 2 originals and 12 offspring (assuming my quick math is right)... Now if we plug in predator loss, say taking the 37% as the study found in the first 10 days of flight and assume lets say another 13% loss from other predators, we end up with give or take about 2 originals and maybe 6 offspring in the 7-8 year breeding cycle period... And that doesn't account for additional loss due to food shortages for example...

Now of course the numbers would be higher if we used the median 2 babies per breeding pair, but then again we only factored in the predator loss from babies in flight training, not those taken as eggs or chicks at other times...

In the end it's really a far fetched and silly analogy to try and make...

http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2001/08/0809_redtailedhawks_2.html

Well stated and even if you say they hatch 3 offspring a year like the Cornell hawks they still only lay once a year so 3 offspring once a year for 7 years, that's still only 21 hawks plus the parents. Nowhere near the billions like the rabbits. Plus the rabbits take maybe at most 6 months to a year to mature unlike 3 years for hawks. I had no idea so many hawks died that fast but another thing i recently read said a lot die their first year due to inexperience. I am sure that percentage factors into the "inexperience" thing but still, some may be hit by cars or electrocuted by power lines. Stuff like that. So factor their sheer inexperience with predators and you don't have very many hawks left lol sad but true. They regulate themselves pretty well. Plus often adults will get hit by cars too. Or maybe it's largely young, inexperienced hawks, I'm not sure, but I know I've heard so many stories about hawks getting hit by cars. It's said. They'll often be killed by that, obviously, but also sometimes they are injured and rehabilitated and released or sometimes they can't be released. So all that probably severely reduces the number of hawks around.

 

[MeepBeep]

That is also the reason it is illegal to carry one hidden unless you get a special license.

Laws vary by state and location, there are several states where you can carry concealed with no license at all or licences that are handed out by just asking for it, and in most instances you can carry concealed on private property with the owners permission with no special license... Illinois just recently allowed concealed carry with a license, but that never stopped me and many others from open or concealed carry on our property or place of business if the owner approved...

 

[perchie.girl]

Quote:
concieled on your own property here in California.... at least in San Diego. In the county you can carry it in a holster on your hip if its not loaded elsewhere. But i have not seen anyone do this.

But I tell you youd better not step off your property with it concieled. Border Patrol and sheriff would be on you like a duck on a bug...
There are too many people walking the roads at night around my place

Ihave a shot gun but its never been out of its holder. Its for people not predators. I bought it because my roommate got her ..... in a twist over illegals asking for water. She used to shoot skeet. I figured if she needed it she could use it .... I dont know anyone that doesnt know a shotgun being cocked.

but now shes moved on I am going to sell it. Too afraid to learn to use it. Smart enough to know I had better know how to use it in all circumstances and be safe. I have no issue with people passing through. As long as they dont turn my water on and walk off and leave it. and they dont let my horse out.

There is nothing in my house worth anything to me enough to point a gun at someone.

Predators I leave em be... kill one and his territory is taken over by two others till they establish dominance. Better to teach him that fences bite (hot wire) so he will go to someone elses property. Birds of prey? I feed the Ravens they seem to keep things in order....

But I will not be free ranging my egg layers....

deb

 

[Sylvester017]

I'll come tend your predator problems.

I've got 5 shotguns, 4 riffles, 2 pistols and idk how many knives, swords, traps and pellet guns.

That's before I include what I'll be getting from my parents when they decide to pass it to me.

You'll come to California?

 

[hitchyourwagon]

Predators
I live in the country with an abundance of predators. I lost my fair share of birds until we got a great dog that protects the farm from varmits including owls, hawks, coyotes, snakes, and worst of all... Coons! She considers the chickens part of her family and stands guard everyday. Our birds free range during the day and I have not lost a bird to predators since she became part of the family. She also gives us unconditional love and companionship. I have seen her confront a coyote in our horse pasture. We just got a second pup for her to train.