Poultry Breeds of Spanish Ancestry

[Lacy Blues]

I would like a blue tailed buff bird down the road.
In Spain there is blue tailed buff and black tail Buff

One of my daughter's birds, a buff minorca, got into one of my pens (this was eons ago). One of the eggs that hatched from that little mishap came out looking like a splashed andalusian. As it started growing though, it started to get buff colored feathering... I'm like, what the heck? He only made it to about 5 months or so (predator) but he was a pretty nice looking bird. Buff with a blue tail and slate legs.

I have some questions if you don't mind entertaining me briefly

I realize they're rare, do you know how rare? I'm wondering about the gene pool in the US.
They're said to be 6-8lbs; is that a historic weight or are you seeing this with your current stock?
Can you speak to the rate of growth and temperament (are you able to keep multiple cock birds)?

My opinion:
I'm sure the Catalana is considered a breed unsuited to new flock keepers (Mediterraneans never/rarely suggested instead losing out to the traditional heritage breeds like Orpingtons and Cochins) but the Mediterranean class in general seems well suited to my purpose and desires; the general description of them as flighty and intolerant of confinement does not dissuade me. The all business and no BS part is especially appealing. Perhaps I'll change my mind, get a breed that will pant in the heat and beg for lap time (tongue firmly in cheek), but that's why I've chosen to begin my research and learning well in advance

Thanks,
M

I think the Mediterranean breeds are not recommended for beginners because of two possibilities. The hatcheries don't take temperament into account and find that when they walk by their pens, the birds hang from the rafters - just because they walked by! They don't want beginners to experience this because they might be discouraged from keeping chickens in the first place. They think it is part and parcel of the whole package. People who buy from hatcheries or even people who try to breed them and don't select for temperament, sell to people who are used to cochins.

Intolerant of confinement I think is referring to their higher energy level. When confined (with a too high concentration) is looking for trouble as they can quickly develop a bad/ugly habit of pecking at each other. I think it can be attributed to boredom. This is one of the reasons I want to make bigger runs this year so they can actually run more than a dozen steps!

Lacy Blues, might we see the new chicks?

M

Yep! I need to get some batteries for my camera. That thing goes through batteries like a kid hiding in the corner with a bag of tootsie rolls.

I can tell you that my andalusians did better and survived longer when confined. Birds I received from the hatchery were not very strong health wise. But the ones I hatched myself did fine.

Lacy blues has awesome birds which shows her dedication to the breed. They are difficult but fun a fun breed as they are talkative lol cute really. I think everyone should try them

Predation is definitely an issue. I couldn't let my birds free range when I lived in California. Too many red tailed hawks (very large bird - couldn't carry them off but had no problem hitting them and eating them on the spot), mountain lions and coyotes. Here, I have stray dogs and smaller hawks. I also have coyotes but have only heard them after dark. I know they're out there in the daylight hours too. Therefore, no free ranging.

And yes, very talkative.

Ron, it's the "very friendly" part that I find so unsettling. I think I'd prefer hand-tame or tolerant of handling to be the best description. Maybe I'm wrong about what friendly means when talking about chickens though. I'm not looking for a pet chicken but a breed that can contribute to a "homestead" in a meaningful way, provide some history and beauty to my world and capture my interest in such a way as to inspire me to breed for integrity.

They would be a great first time flock breed

What makes a breed suitable or unsuitable for someone new to chickens? The answer is important When it comes time for me to establish my flock I'm not interested in in putzing about with mypetchicken but will instead be making an investment--I'd like to get it right....or at least halfway there

Thanks for everyone's time, patience and input. I appreciate it.
M

Don't interpret very friendly to mean "lap chicken". They are very friendly in that they will hang around to see what you're doing and don't generally leap for the rafters. You have to be patient to work with them because it is easy to get them excited.

"Tolerant of handling" will have to include a bit of difficulty in catching them... you have to devise a way... corners work very well and don't try to do it with your hands out in front of you... they'll just jump over. If you can get them into a corner, you can put your leg almost against one wall, leaving a little bit of space. With your arms/hands, reach out across the corner to steer them toward your leg and the space behind it. You may have to keep your hand which is closest to them up high so they don't jump over you. When they dash for that opening behind your leg, you need to be quick and catch them right then. This way there is a minimum of fuss and stress. Once you have them caught, they are tolerant of handling and will pretty much let you hold them for whatever purpose you needed to do it.

No need to apologize your intentions in asking detailed questions. I wish more people did. People see a beautiful bird and think they want it until they experience the bird... they think they're all cochins.

 

[gjensen]

I have some questions if you don't mind entertaining me briefly

I realize they're rare, do you know how rare? I'm wondering about the gene pool in the US.
They're said to be 6-8lbs; is that a historic weight or are you seeing this with your current stock?
Can you speak to the rate of growth and temperament (are you able to keep multiple cock birds)?

My opinion:
I'm sure the Catalana is considered a breed unsuited to new flock keepers (Mediterraneans never/rarely suggested instead losing out to the traditional heritage breeds like Orpingtons and Cochins) but the Mediterranean class in general seems well suited to my purpose and desires; the general description of them as flighty and intolerant of confinement does not dissuade me. The all business and no BS part is especially appealing. Perhaps I'll change my mind, get a breed that will pant in the heat and beg for lap time (tongue firmly in cheek), but that's why I've chosen to begin my research and learning well in advance

Thanks,
M

In the States they are very rare. I found after some serious looking, what I would call three breeding flocks. These are small flocks. I have one of them now. Of course there could be another somewhere, but I am not aware of it. Some of what is out there is from the hatcheries, and I do not count them. Not because I am anti hatchery, but because I have become familiar with those birds.

There are two hatcheries that carry what they call Catalanas, but I am no fan of them. One is obviously a crossed bird, and the other . . . well, it is not worth saying.

The non hatchery Catalanas that we have are well suited for new flock keepers. They are easy to manage. They are not flighty. Mine eat from my hands. They do not want to get picked up, and be pets, but they are easy to handle in your hands.

That stuff about being flighty and intolerant of confinement is from people that has never had this breed. Some Mediterranean breeds are like that. Some breeds and or strains are not. If you look back in this thread, you will see a post that I made coming from the experiences that someone had with this breed. A woman with some young girls that is a new flock keeper. She has some Orpingtons so that you know her frame of reference. I sent her some eggs wondering whether or not she would like them.

That lap time stuff we see here on here is silly. These chickens do not come to greet us, but looking for food. Some are easier to manage than others, and we have to decide for ourselves what is best for us. Easy to manage can be synonymous with lazy to.

I would only caution you by saying that a lot of the stuff on the internet is in fact BS. This surge in keeping poultry is new, and much of the information out there is posted by people that are new to poultry. Most do not have a lot of practical experience themselves. They tend to perpetuate what they have heard or read.

How many people have kept this breed themselves? I only know a few, so how is it known how they will behave or perform by so many?

The best way to know about any of these breeds is to take the time to discover what is a reputable source, and discuss the birds characteristics with that source. The good ones that know their birds, and have worked with them for some time will know and will give a good honest assessment. It varies from strain to strain as much as it does breed to breed.

Catalanas that we have here are active, so if they have the choice they will prefer to be out foraging. They also do well in confinement, but I would not recommend close confinement.

I could go on and on about them. They are the most delightful birds I have ever owned. These are good old fashioned farm birds. There are only downside is that they are so rare, and they need a lot of work. They have been neglected. For someone that is not intimidated by that, they are worth considering.

Look back and find that post with the experience with Catalanas. That is an objective view and was sent to me. I asked permission to post it. Many of these rare breeds have reputations based on the words of people that have never kept them.

Mine are undersized and they are here. They eventually get close to their weights, but this needs improvement. Keeping multiple cock birds is iffy. If they are raised together, maybe. Once separated, certainly not. They are birds with some spirit. They behave like a cock bird with vigor. Same with the females. They get along well within a mixed flock, but do not take to newcomers well. Everything good comes at a cost.

 

[southernmomma]

Lacy Blues

I think the Mediterranean breeds are not recommended for beginners because of two possibilities. The hatcheries don't take temperament into account and find that when they walk by their pens, the birds hang from the rafters - just because they walked by! They don't want beginners to experience this because they might be discouraged from keeping chickens in the first place. They think it is part and parcel of the whole package. People who buy from hatcheries or even people who try to breed them and don't select for temperament, sell to people who are used to cochins.

As I suspected.

Don't interpret very friendly to mean "lap chicken". They are very friendly in that they will hang around to see what you're doing and don't generally leap for the rafters. You have to be patient to work with them because it is easy to get them excited.

This is good to know as I was beginning to wonder if there really was only extremes in temperament.

"Tolerant of handling" will have to include a bit of difficulty in catching them... you have to devise a way... corners work very well and don't try to do it with your hands out in front of you... they'll just jump over. If you can get them into a corner, you can put your leg almost against one wall, leaving a little bit of space. With your arms/hands, reach out across the corner to steer them toward your leg and the space behind it. You may have to keep your hand which is closest to them up high so they don't jump over you. When they dash for that opening behind your leg, you need to be quick and catch them right then. This way there is a minimum of fuss and stress. Once you have them caught, they are tolerant of handling and will pretty much let you hold them for whatever purpose you needed to do it.

This made me laugh a little--I have spent considerable time live trapping feral cats as part of a spay/release program. This sounds exactly (EXACTLY!) like wrangling the kittens. I think I can do this!

gjensen

There are two hatcheries that carry what they call Catalanas, but I am no fan of them. One is obviously a crossed bird, and the other . . . well, it is not worth saying.

The non hatchery Catalanas that we have are well suited for new flock keepers. They are easy to manage. They are not flighty. Mine eat from my hands. They do not want to get picked up, and be pets, but they are easy to handle in your hands.

I'm not the slightest bit interested in hatchery stock. An acquaintance, when hearing of our plan, invited me over to show off her chickens.....a rather dull group of 6 hens, clucking and staring off into space. Boring even if they are "pets", lol. With the small numbers are you concerned with genetic bottlenecks at any point or do you feel your flock is diverse enough to be closed? What breeding method are you going to be using?

If you look back in this thread, you will see a post that I made coming from the experiences that someone had with this breed.

I did. Very complimentary of the breed.

I would only caution you by saying that a lot of the stuff on the internet is in fact BS.

Agreed, a lot of broad strokes and absolutes. All the more reason I'm grateful for such detailed responses from all of you. I only have so many hours in the day and getting good information has been like finding a needle in a haystack up to this point.

Catalanas that we have here are active, so if they have the choice they will prefer to be out foraging. They also do well in confinement, but I would not recommend close confinement.

I could go on and on about them. They are the most delightful birds I have ever owned. These are good old fashioned farm birds. There are only downside is that they are so rare, and they need a lot of work. They have been neglected. For someone that is not intimidated by that, they are worth considering.

Mine are undersized and they are here. They eventually get close to their weights, but this needs improvement. Keeping multiple cock birds is iffy. If they are raised together, maybe. Once separated, certainly not. They are birds with some spirit. They behave like a cock bird with vigor. Same with the females. They get along well within a mixed flock, but do not take to newcomers well. Everything good comes at a cost.

I have over an acre to play with initially and have plans to improve on the foraging environment and since I have no plans to breed for other than my own table and that of my extended family any breed I choose will have plenty of room.
I'm long sighted and am thinking about the next 10 years, not the next 10 months. Without being boring with details I can tell you this move is a looooong time coming for us and has been discussed with seriousness for 5 years. An opportunity has arisen and we are chasing down the dream.
I only think to overwinter 3 males-- 1 lead cock, my potential breeder and his second. After breeding season I would decide who was kissing the cleaver and keep only a lead cock. I think it lends balance


Thank you both, for the information,
M

 

[southernmomma]

Ron

You are very correct about checking for temps. Look at the average temps in asturia compared to Louisiana. Humidity is not a factor for chickens so temperature is all you need to look at.

You mentioned that before and I'd forgotten. The climates are remarkably similar.

Pita Pintas have only been here for two years. Mine were too little to know last year and the other two flocks are on the coast of CA-- inland but a lot cooler than at my place.

We hit 110+ last summer. I know that the Basque hens take the heat very well and will know more after this summer about the Pita Pintas. They are good with meat production and eggs too--just not quite as good as the Pita Pintas.

I have the luxury of time....I'll be curious to hear your opinion of these birds as your experience with them broadens.

Thanks,
M

 

[ronott1]

Ron

You are very correct about checking for temps. Look at the average temps in asturia compared to Louisiana. Humidity is not a factor for chickens so temperature is all you need to look at.

You mentioned that before and I'd forgotten. The climates are remarkably similar.

Pita Pintas have only been here for two years. Mine were too little to know last year and the other two flocks are on the coast of CA-- inland but a lot cooler than at my place.

We hit 110+ last summer. I know that the Basque hens take the heat very well and will know more after this summer about the Pita Pintas. They are good with meat production and eggs too--just not quite as good as the Pita Pintas.

I have the luxury of time....I'll be curious to hear your opinion of these birds as your experience with them broadens.

Thanks,
M

I will be posting updates about them on this thread for sure.

You are going on a great adventure!

 

[gjensen]

Southernmomma, the Catalanas in the States are not what I would call dual purpose birds yet. As much as I like them, and that they should be, I cannot honestly say they are. They could be and I expect that they will be. The potential is there. They are not there yet.

I only know of a few GOOD dual purpose strains of any breed. A lot of dual purpose breeds but very few perform as they should in this respect, regardless of all of the claims. We do not use them like they were used in the past. It is one of those try some and compare and you will see what I am saying.

I am not saying that there is not enough to eat. There is. Just that they should be better table birds than what they are.

 

[Lacy Blues]

Mine too, I'm working on size. I'm not sure one bird would be enough for a large family to partake of (particularly if said family isn't so much omnivorous as we humans are supposed to be, but much more carnivorous than is healthy). Some people are like that... however, my Andalusians, being a "light" breed would be a long way from that if I was to improve their table qualities too much. They could definitely stand a little improvement in that area and it is a work in progress.

You know guys, I'm really loving all this discussion about our birds. Thank you for happening along southernmomma!

 

[southernmomma]

Southernmomma, the Catalanas in the States are not what I would call dual purpose birds yet. As much as I like them, and that they should be, I cannot honestly say they are. They could be and I expect that they will be. The potential is there. They are not there yet.

I only know of a few GOOD dual purpose strains of any breed. A lot of dual purpose breeds but very few perform as they should in this respect, regardless of all of the claims. We do not use them like they were used in the past. It is one of those try some and compare and you will see what I am saying.

I am not saying that there is not enough to eat. There is. Just that they should be better table birds than what they are.

Mine too, I'm working on size. I'm not sure one bird would be enough for a large family to partake of (particularly if said family isn't so much omnivorous as we humans are supposed to be, but much more carnivorous than is healthy). Some people are like that... however, my Andalusians, being a "light" breed would be a long way from that if I was to improve their table qualities too much. They could definitely stand a little improvement in that area and it is a work in progress.

You know guys, I'm really loving all this discussion about our birds. Thank you for happening along southernmomma!

Last night we roasted a chicken and ate our fill (2 adults and 2 children), I had a chicken taco for lunch, have made chicken tortilla soup for our dinner, given the cat a generous portion and let the dog have the neck and nice piece of skin. It was a 4 lb bird. My idea of dual-purpose is not the same as others in that I've no desire to sit down to a turkey sized bird and gorge on meat.

I'm enjoying this very much and the discussion with its frankness has allowed me some clarity and direction.
Thanks,
M

 

[ronott1]

Last night we roasted a chicken and ate our fill (2 adults and 2 children), I had a chicken taco for lunch, have made chicken tortilla soup for our dinner, given the cat a generous portion and let the dog have the neck and nice piece of skin. It was a 4 lb bird. My idea of dual-purpose is not the same as others in that I've no desire to sit down to a turkey sized bird and gorge on meat.

I'm enjoying this very much and the discussion with its frankness has allowed me some clarity and direction.
Thanks,
M

I have 6 Crele Penedesenca x Cream Legbar cockerels--they are 12 weeks old and getting on my nerves. I told my daughters that I was going to process two of them this weekend quarter them a BBQ them. They will be very tender at that at age! They will never be very big but I bet they will taste great.

 

[Lacy Blues]

I have 6 Crele Penedesenca x Cream Legbar cockerels--they are 12 weeks old and getting on my nerves. I told my daughters that I was going to process two of them this weekend quarter them a BBQ them. They will be very tender at that at age! They will never be very big but I bet they will taste great.

This struck me pretty funny there Ron! What are they doing that is so bad?