power out

[capper2013]

hi, I have a clutch of eggs in the incubator, last night we had a power out due to our sucky summer weather here in the uk; the power went out for two hours and the temperature dropped over that time by 5-7 degrees.
the eggs are due to start hatching in about a week.
are they likely to still be viable or should I cut my losses, chuck them in the bin and incubate another lot?

 

[capper2013]

i forgot to add, they are chicken eggs on this occasion.

 

[IceAngel]

I just had that happen recently as well but I had no idea how long the power was off or how cool the Bator got because it happened on several different nights. The only way we could even tell the power had been off was because of blinking clocks. If you "water" candle the eggs you will see if there are any alive.

I figured that my whole batch was bust, however, two little chicks hatched a day late. I waited another two days before opening the bator because there was no sign of pipping and no peeping, besides the two hatchlings.

The "water" candling found movement in six turkey eggs and 10 chicken eggs. If I hadn't done the water candling I probably would have thrown the live eggs out because there was no visible sign of life, nor any sound.

Now, because I opened the Bator they are probably all going to need help hatching due to drying out the membrane.

 

[capper2013]

I just had that happen recently as well but I had no idea how long the power was off or how cool the Bator got because it happened on several different nights. The only way we could even tell the power had been off was because of blinking clocks. If you "water" candle the eggs you will see if there are any alive.

I figured that my whole batch was bust, however, two little chicks hatched a day late. I waited another two days before opening the bator because there was no sign of pipping and no peeping, besides the two hatchlings.

The "water" candling found movement in six turkey eggs and 10 chicken eggs. If I hadn't done the water candling I probably would have thrown the live eggs out because there was no visible sign of life, nor any sound.

Now, because I opened the Bator they are probably all going to need help hatching due to drying out the membrane.

oh, well perhaps I shall leave them then, not long to go after all is said and done.
I have float tested others before, and the wrigglers look quite amazing just rocking and rolling around.
how long did you have your bator open for? a short period will probably not make much if any difference either way, the shell tends to protect them rather well.
thank you for responding to my query, I appreciate it very much.

 

[IceAngel]

I teach Science, so whenever possible I try to employ that knowledge to solve problems. I learned from experience to keep the internal environment of the Bator as stable as possible. It's best not to open it but if you have to, don't remove the lid all the way. Hot air rises and it holds more moisture than cooler air. I made a handle for my Bator lid with duct tape, so I can actually lift it vertically.

Next, you want to replace the moisture that you lost by opening the lid so I have warm, wet paper towels ready. The larger the wet surface area, the faster the water will evaporate and restore the humidity.

You are right that the eggs form a protective coating for the chick, however, the shell is porous and water vapor and air pass back and forth easily. If there is a large temperature or humidity gradient and you have a fan in your Bator, this can occur very quickly.

Btw, since there was no peeping from any of the water-candled shells and because I was four days past my hatch date, I cracked the shells of all the eggs to see what was keeping the chicks from pipping. Only two of the turkey chicks had visible movement. Their membranes were already white and since the humidity was at 85% before I opened the Bator for the water candling, it had obviously dried out in a very short time. I wrapped the two turkey eggs in wet paper towels touching the membrane and put them back in the Bator. The other four turkey eggs that had wobbled in the water showed no sign of life upon opening the shells. Perhaps they died overnight, I have no idea.
So out of a Bator filled with 40 eggs, I only have two turkeys and 8 chicks that survived in total because of the power outages.

I think you may be luckier. Just because the Bator temperature dropped doesn't mean the eggs reached the same temperature. Because the chicks are at least 75% water (possibly more depending on state of development)..... and water looses heat much more slowly than air, they probably stayed warmer than the Bator. Don't forget too that there was metabolic activity going on as well......so that generates its own heat.

What I don't know is at what temperature the embryo actually dies. I was hoping somebody knew this and could tell us.

 

[IceAngel]

About killing temperatures. I found this:

"Although it is not recommended, slightly lower temperatures will not kill the chick embryos, but can increase incubation times and produce weakened chicks. Temperatures only a degree or two above the recommended temperatures can kill chicks within 15-30 minutes, depending on how high the temperature is and the stage of development of the chick embryo."

 

[capper2013]

I teach Science, so whenever possible I try to employ that knowledge to solve problems. I learned from experience to keep the internal environment of the Bator as stable as possible. It's best not to open it but if you have to, don't remove the lid all the way. Hot air rises and it holds more moisture than cooler air. I made a handle for my Bator lid with duct tape, so I can actually lift it vertically.

Next, you want to replace the moisture that you lost by opening the lid so I have warm, wet paper towels ready. The larger the wet surface area, the faster the water will evaporate and restore the humidity.

You are right that the eggs form a protective coating for the chick, however, the shell is porous and water vapor and air pass back and forth easily. If there is a large temperature or humidity gradient and you have a fan in your Bator, this can occur very quickly.

Btw, since there was no peeping from any of the water-candled shells and because I was four days past my hatch date, I cracked the shells of all the eggs to see what was keeping the chicks from pipping. Only two of the turkey chicks had visible movement. Their membranes were already white and since the humidity was at 85% before I opened the Bator for the water candling, it had obviously dried out in a very short time. I wrapped the two turkey eggs in wet paper towels touching the membrane and put them back in the Bator. The other four turkey eggs that had wobbled in the water showed no sign of life upon opening the shells. Perhaps they died overnight, I have no idea.
So out of a Bator filled with 40 eggs, I only have two turkeys and 8 chicks that survived in total because of the power outages.

I think you may be luckier. Just because the Bator temperature dropped doesn't mean the eggs reached the same temperature. Because the chicks are at least 75% water (possibly more depending on state of development)..... and water looses heat much more slowly than air, they probably stayed warmer than the Bator. Don't forget too that there was metabolic activity going on as well......so that generates its own heat.

What I don't know is at what temperature the embryo actually dies. I was hoping somebody knew this and could tell us.

wow, that really sucks losing 75% of your eggs. do turkeys and chickens develop at the same temperature?
I had read somewhere that keeping turkeys and chickens in the same area was a hazard to the turkeys, apparently there is something in chicken waste that can kill turkeys.
I quite fancy raising a few myself, they look real nice; however I am trying not to pen anything in. I have a goose house and a chicken house but they get let out a few hours after sunrise and are left to roam at their will until dusk. I would hate to develop on some turkeys only for them to die just for wandering the same land as the chickens.
I only have one chicken at the moment, but the geese are terrified of it. the geese are over twice the size of the chicken and getting bigger, however if the chicken strolls into view they scatter amid goosey screeches and squeals.

when the power went out I left the lid on the incubator and didn't touch it until yesterday. hopefully the eggs were safe enough.
I was hoping someone might give some indication on at what temperature becomes dangerous to embryos or developing chicks too, however the information you have shared is very interesting and helpful, thank you.

About killing temperatures. I found this:

"Although it is not recommended, slightly lower temperatures will not kill the chick embryos, but can increase incubation times and produce weakened chicks. Temperatures only a degree or two above the recommended temperatures can kill chicks within 15-30 minutes, depending on how high the temperature is and the stage of development of the chick embryo."

that really is very interesting, almost counter-intuitive. if you hadn't mentioned it I would have thought that the embryos would react more negatively to colder temperatures than warmer ones.
perhaps my eggs will be just fine anyway. only 3 days left before hatching starts, maybe I will give them a little longer than I normally would to account for the temperature fluctuation.
just to be on the safe side.

 

[IceAngel]

Well your geese are smart....they know that your chicken is really a dinosaur in disguise , lol.

Yes, some say you shouldn't raise chickens and turkeys together but I do because there seem to be more benefits than problems. There is a disease called black spot that Turkeys can get from chickens. If you don't treat the turkeys they may die from it. My conclusion...treat the black spot if it appears. We have seven acres and our chickens are all free range. Currently I am training my Turkeys to be free range as well. They are not as quick to learn where their roost is and will just huddle together where ever they may be when the sun goes down and the mood strikes them.

Now about the benefits.....apparently Turkey chicks are a little stupid and can starve to death if someone doesn't teach them to eat or drink. So unless you want to be the teacher, you can incubate a couple of chicken eggs along with them and they will solve the problem for you..... and yes, chickens incubate at the same temperature but they need one week less incubation time....so throw in the chick eggs into the Bator a week after you started your turkeys. Chicks come out of the egg, pecking and scratching and the Turkey chicks learn very quickly from them.

I learned even more beneficial information from @Momo . She had a very interesting response to a post on chicken vaccinations. Apparently Mareks disease is everywhere but the recommendation was that vaccinations were only necessary for large chicken producers. Check out her post because it was very informative. From it I gleaned that some people raise Turkeys and Chickens together so that they don't have to vaccinate against Mareks. Apparently Turkeys carry a milder form of Mareks that will confer some immunity to chickens for the killer disease. I don't really know the validity of this info but I have found that the people in this forum are very wise and speak from years of experience.

Hope this was helpful @capper2013

 

[IceAngel]

@capper2013 by far the best thing about turkey chicks is that they don't peck each other like chickens from different hatches do. Since I started with just one turkey hen, I have several different hatches because you can't keep the eggs too long. All of my hatches live together after the first month. Some are only a month old and some are three months old. You could never do that with chickens because the older, bigger ones would peck the little ones to death if they couldn't get away.

I hope I am not breaking some Turkey rule by doing that but I really can't have a separate house for just five Turkeys. I had been saving the eggs for two weeks but I found that the longer I kept the eggs the fewer hatched. Now I use two incubators and I put the turkey eggs into my main Bator every week making sure to mark each weeks eggs with a different symbol. Then on lockdown, I remove the eggs that are 25 days old to my other Bator. By the time they are hatched I have just enough time to clean it and put the next group in for lock down. You really have to watch your calendar doing this.....Next year will be better because I plan to keep all my turkey hens.

The little Toms have started to "display".....they puff themselves up and strut their stuff for the girls.....it's hilarious to watch. Apparently "size" doesn't matter in Turkeys because I have a two months old Tom that bites the crap out of a three months old Tom who is twice as big as him (my boys don't seem to peck each other but they will grab the flesh at the neck and hang on, lol). Nobody ever draws blood at this age but I am betting that at some point I am going to have to separate them as they get bigger.

 

[IceAngel]

Good luck in your hatch @capper2013
Let me know how it goes.