Prelim Necropsy results

[carousel]

I have started a new thread as they keep getting off track.
Please understand I have chosen my words with great care. Please don't read into anything, it is what it is.
Remember the big deep breath.

PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE help me keep this thread on track. I'm not INTERESTED in the blame game right now. I'm interested in LEARNING what I need to know. And sharing what I'm learning.

I will deal with McMurray they have been fair, My vet is also willing to contact them and I will also send any reports if they want them.
We took the 3 worst of my 5 chicks that have had problems. I'm going to let the 2 that are doing better try to recover for now.
the vet did a necropsy on the most affected chick and she agreed it was a proper decision to euthanize them.
Her preliminary comments
They are perfectly normal, no parasites, no bacteria, nothing abnormal, she was amazed that they had as good weight and condition as they had (have been trying to keep them going with some high calorie food).
She is very very concerned and suspect of AE (Avian encephalomyelitis) based on their history and the chicks symptoms are classic. I repeat these are her words, what she is seeing is what she 100% would expect to see with AE. (ie gross necropsy 100% normal) and the chicks clinical symptoms, age and how they are affected is classic for AE.

Tissues samples were being prepared tonight and will be sent out on Friday with a bit of luck we will have answers on Monday.

I repeat
I'm not trying to spread rumors or gossip.
as far as what this is "costing me" it is of course out of my pocket. My choice because I want to know.
My other chicks continue to do well.
does anyone had any questions for me at this point?

So I do have a bit of a wait, until we have a positive dx I'm treating them as IF they have AE.

The vet did say that the 2 chicks I have at home could recover just fine based on the progress they are making already. IF it is AE this is not a 100% a death sentence for my chick flock. She said most losses with AE are prior to 4 weeks of age.

But as she mentioned it could be something else? And that news could be better or worse.
Trying to keep good quality food in front of them and wait it out.
She suggested I just continue to offer them good care and that the vits and electrolytes are not a problem, that I could continue.

CS

 

[petlove]

I hate to sound ignorant but what does AE stand for. I am trying to learn all I can before my chicks come in April. I appreciate this post.

 

[Mrs MIA]

Thank you Carousel, for sharing your information. I will be waiting as patiently as you for the final word, as my May chick order hangs in the balance at the moment. I, for one, appreciate the effort that you, and others, are putting into finding out what is wrong with the chicks. I'm sorry that you have to deal with this.

 

[carousel]

sorry,
it was a good question.
Avian encephalomyelitis it is a Virus
I will edit my other post
CS

 

[Mrs MIA]

avian Encephalomyelitis
http://www.merckvetmanual.com/mvm/htm/bc/205300.htm

 

[petlove]

How is it spread and what have been the symptoms? You probably have posted it elsewhere but I don't have as much time as I would like to read the may posts that appear daily. Thanks for your input.

 

[carousel]

btw
AE is Avian encephalomyelitis
from the Merck manual
http://www.merckvetmanual.com/mvm/index.jsp?cfile=htm/bc/205300.htm
Avian encephalomyelitis is a worldwide viral disease of Japanese quail, turkeys, chickens, and pheasants, characterized by ataxia and tremor of the head, neck, and limbs. Ducklings, pigeons, and guinea fowl are susceptible to experimental infection. The causative picornavirus can be grown in chicken embryos from nonimmune hens. It is transmitted for ~1 wk through a portion of eggs laid by infected hens, and then spreads laterally in the hatcher or brooder to susceptible hatchmates.
Clinical Findings:
Signs commonly appear at 7-10 days of age, although they may be present at hatching or delayed for several weeks. The main signs are unsteadiness, sitting on hocks, paresis, and even complete inability to move. Muscular tremors are best seen after exercising the bird; holding the bird on its back in the cupped hand helps in detection. Typically, about 5% of the flock is affected, although morbidity and mortality may be much higher. The disease in adult birds is inapparent except for a transient drop in egg production. The disease in turkeys is often milder than in chickens.
Lesions:
No gross lesions of the nervous system are seen. Lymphocytic accumulations in the gizzard muscle may be visible as grayish areas. Lens opacities may develop weeks after infection. Microscopic lesions in the CNS consist of neuronal axon-type degeneration (“ghost” cells) in the brain, particularly in the brain stem and in the anterior horn cells of the spinal cord. Gliosis and lymphocytic perivascular cuffing can also be seen. Visceral microscopic lesions consist of lymphoid follicles in the muscular tissue of the gizzard, proventriculus, and myocardium, while numerous lymphoid follicles can be found in the pancreas.
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Diagnosis:
Avian encephalomyelitis must be differentiated from avian encephalomalacia (vitamin E deficiency), rickets, vitamin B1 or B2 deficiency, Newcastle disease, eastern encephalitis, Marek’s disease, and encephalitis caused by bacteria, fungi (eg, aspergillosis), or mycoplasmas. Diagnosis is based on history, signs, and histologic study of brain, spinal cord, proventriculus, gizzard, and pancreas. Virus isolation in eggs free of avian encephalomyelitis antibody is sometimes necessary for confirmation. Serologic testing of paired samples is helpful, using virus neutralization or ELISA tests. Microscopic lesions are sparse and may not be found in infected adults.
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Prevention and Treatment:
Immunization of breeder pullets 10-15 wk old with a commercial live vaccine is advised to prevent vertical transmission of the virus to progeny and to provide them with maternal immunity against the disease. Vaccination of table-egg flocks is also advisable to prevent a temporary drop in egg production. Affected chicks and poults are ordinarily destroyed because few recover. A combination vaccine for fowlpox and avian encephalomyelitis for wing-web administration is widely used. The disease does not affect humans or other mammals.

NOT AI
AI is avian influenza - that would be MUCH WORSE.
CS

 

[petlove]

Great information. Thank you. I will look more into this and the vaccination.

 

[Rafter 7 Paint Horses]

Thanks for the update carousel,

Did the vet offer any suggestions of what to do for your chicks at home that are showing symptoms?

Also, did the vet say, if it is AE, can it really be caused from getting chilled in transit?

I am very interested in the results.
I am sorry about your chicks, but I hope the test results will ease your mind.

Jean

 

[farm_mom]

Thank you for sharing your information carousel! While I lost 10 in the first few days, and not another since, they have just turned two weeks old and I've got two that have taken a turn for the worse. Won't move their legs, just sit in place with eyes closed and I've seen the bobble head symptom for the first time. Obviously I'm concerned for these chicks, but I also have many, probably at least 10 out of the remaining 19 who eat, drink, grow and act relatively normal except they walk a bit frankensteinish. Out of those ten I have few with clear leg issues. Splayed or huanch walking. But it's those others who just walk a bit stiff, disjointed or drunkenly that I'm wondering about. I guess what I'm asking is what's been your standard for "ill." It's been recommeded here, and rightly so I think, that those of us with sick chicks keep ours separate from the others. I'm just not sure whether those funny walkers should be considered sick......thanks for any advice you can give. I know you're not an expert, but just appreciate the input!