Probiotics - a lesson for the day

[smoothmule]

I was reading through some of the posts and suddenly noticed that there was little discussion here about probiotics. That sort of surprised me. I usually read and learn but now I feel I have something valuable I can share with the group.

Animals, including humans, are born with a sterile gut. What that means is that there are no flora (bacteria) present until it gets built up. There is good and bad bacteria and it has to be balanced (homeostasis). In mammals, we get things rolling with colostrum. In chickens, some of it comes with the remainder they absorb after hatching and before they start eating but much of it comes from the soil.

Chicks raised on the ground with mamma hen will get more of this good stuff naturally, from the soil as well as picking up some of it from momma hens poop (foals eat momma horses poop for this very reason). Those raised in a cleaner environment don't get the bad bacteria so much....but they don't get the good bacteria either and that is what they need to properly digest their food. It's not that they didn't get "any", just not always enough.

The result of a poorly balanced gut is that digestion is not at the maximum it could be and they can end up with more bad bacteria than good with results in an "infection" or overgrowth of the bad bacteria. So, we can have weak or sick chicks. It can also include diarrhea and constipation leading to poopy butt.

When we treat with antibiotics (because our chicks are ill from whatever), it's not specific to which bacteria. It kills it all so replacing the good bacteria is important.

I did notice several posts about yogurt but there is a better way to supply probiotics to chicks and adults than yogurt. There are several probiotic tablets and capsules on the market now. It's in the people section where they sell supplements. Choose one that has more types of enzymes (probiotics). Lactobacillus is the most common but many of them contain others as well as well as vitamins so read the labels to be sure they don't contain something harmful to chickens.

An even better choice is a product I often use. It's a yeast (also a probiotic) from Western Yeast Company. They "grow" theirs on cornmeal so it's easy to feed any age chicken.
Here are some pages of interest

http://www.westernyeast.com/
http://www.westernyeast.com/benefits.htm
http://www.westernyeast.com/wypoult.htm

I personally buy it for my horses but when I have it on hand, every animal on the place gets it too. Feed is too expensive to not try to get the most out of it and I don't neccessarily feed less feed, but they get greater benefits from what they do eat so they stay fat and healthy. I used it heavily the year we had the ice storms and the hay that year was not the best. Many people here complained their animals were losing weight but mine stayed fat and healthy.

When I buy, it's a large bag. I'm not sure if you can buy small amounts from this company but I would be happy to sell smaller amounts to anyone wanting to use it for the price per pound I pay for it plus shipping.

 

[mzfancichicks]

Thank you for the time you spent on this. This was great info. One question though - which product do you use?

 

[Rootball]

Im not exactly a expert in chicken digestion, but I do know that you should probably balance any yeasts with bacterial probiotics as well.


Yeast and Bacteria are generally enemies and they keep each other in check. In fact if you will remember from science class, antibiotics are made from mold which is a fungus as is yeast. Yeasts will always benefit from an antibiotic in the system and one of the common problems with antibiotics is that they can cause overgrowths of intestinal yeast.

The yeast product sounds great, but id balance it with Lactobacillus, bifidus etc, especially considering that the sterile gut is also susceptible to yeast infections.


You noted that yogurt is sometimes mentioned on the forum, one other thing sometimes mentioned which can be beneficial is Kombucha. Because Kombucha is coincidentally a SCOBY which means(Symbiotc Combination of Bacteria and Yeasts). Some rare forms of both who have made friends and live together. YOu can grow it for pennies once you get a mother.

 

[smoothmule]

I'm a Registered Nurse and anything that has to do the the science of health interests me, in addition to just loving animals of any type. I've been using the yeast from Western Yeast Company for a long time but to be honest, I forget to order more and end up just using the over the counter type at Walmart. Any type will do that has more than just the lactobacillus. The one I currently have on hand is from Spring Valley and the label says Multi - Enzyme probiotic formula.

It's about $5 for 200 tabs and I just put a few in a coffee cup and crush it and add to the feed. There is no set amount and you can't over dose them. They keep in their system what they need and the rest is just expelled in the poop. It won't build up but there's no need to give them too much either. Two or three tabs to a 3 pound coffee can should be adequate.

That's just part of the whole thing though and the right temps, all the food they can eat and clean water and they should be good to go.

 

[TexasVet]

I finally reached the age my mother was when she started having severe gas, constipation, and bloating every time she ate. Well guess what?! So I started taking "align," a probiotic supplement that helps with digestive imbalance. Viola! Relief in just a couple of days.

I may be wrong, but I'm thinking that mixing some of this supplement into the feed that I gave my hen with sour crop might have solved her problem too.

Kathy, Bellville TX
www.CountryChickens.com

 

[smoothmule]

Rootball,
The yeast I was referring to does have the balance of probiotics. They have several products, here is a page that shows what I'm referring to
http://www.westernyeast.com/wyprods.htm
http://www.westernyeast.com/LACTOcelcon.htm

KHayward,
You're most likely correct. The gastroenterologists I work with strongly encourage the use of probiotics and your mom is an excellent example of the fact it works. The same for your use of it for a hen with the sour crop. There are a lot of reasons for our bodies and theirs to become "unbalanced". Too much of anything isn't good and with the bacterias and yeasts the overgrowth is what we know as an infection. For whatever reasons, the good bacteria/flora has taken a hit and we need to get things back in order. Many times, they get back into order themselves but if they become too weak to fight off the infection, it can mean death to chickens and chicks. We're not treating an infection with probiotics so much as we are giving the body what it needs to correct the imbalance and return to homeostasis (balance).

As a health care provider, I know the value of medical treatment and as a nurse, I also know the value of prevention.

 

[YahKheena]

Hi, I was wondering, I have my chicks on some antibiotics via water and was wanting to add some probiotics to the water also... will they cancel themselves out?

 

[YahKheena]

I was wondering if we couldn't give our chickens the scobies we toss out? How much of the Kombucha can I add to their water?

 

[Alexandra317]

I think I have some little packets left over from a vet for my dog... Flora-something, maybe. Would that work? And you said to make sure no enzymes harmful to chickens... what would those be? I will google and see if I can find out.

 

[smoothmule]

Hi, I was wondering, I have my chicks on some antibiotics via water and was wanting to add some probiotics to the water also... will they cancel themselves out?

It's recommended that probiotics follow antibiotic use. I even do that for myself. Also, after worming them. The wormer wipes out parasites but it also wipes out good bacteria in the gut so probiotics after worming is a good idea. You can't over dose it and probiotics and prebiotics for all animals are fine for chickens. I don't think there is a specific probiotic for poultry. You can dose them daily, that may be more than needed but it won't cause harm. Anytime there is a stressor, medication etc then probiotics are a good idea. Obviously, most people don't give probiotics to poultry. They can certainly live without the addition of probiotics to the diet, there are all sorts of probiotics in the environment, but it's been found to be beneficial