problem with breathing

[AllenWMiller]

I understand where you are coming from Peeps but it takes neither a lot of knowledge nor a lot of resources to get and learn to use a microscope. A good microscope can be had on eBay today for under $50 bucks. And as I stated previously if you have access to a computer you have access to a host of clinical pictures via Google images.

So if you want to know what Chicken Gapeworms look like or Newcastle Disease virus or protozoa and fungi that cause a host of respiratory diseases go to Google Images and type it in you will get the base line to work from. Use this to compare what's under the microscope. You won't be a clinical poultry scientist over night but I believe you will find you can learn pretty quickly with some basic instructions for preparing slides and using a microscope; all of which can also be found through Google on line.

As I said you won't be able to see all virus' because you'd need an electron microscope for many virus' as they require tremendous magnification. But for most ailments of poultry a standard microscope will go a long way to identifying the underlying problem.

If you have the resources as you said "to lose a lot of birds" and you have the desire to have poultry to begin with then very little should stop you from putting your eye to a microscope and learn all you can about your birds. Whether hobby or profession a keen interest in knowing your birds inside and out just makes good poultry husbandry practice.

I will tell you that I wish I had a computer and resources like Google 75 years ago when I was starting college it would have made research a whole heap easier!

Good Luck!

Cheers

Allen

 

[AllenWMiller]

Here's a few link to learn about using a microscope and magnifications

http://www.labessentials.com/Microscopes_Compound_Basics.htm

http://www.theguardians.com/Microbiology/gm_mbh01.htm

http://www.vetmed.ucdavis.edu/viruses/download.html

Many more links available. This knowledge is all free folks. It amazes me how much learning is available today for free.

 

[PeepsCA]

I have not lost any birds to disease that could have been easily prevented by a simple smear or stain on a slide under a microscope (and hope to the high heavens that I never do), but my point was that for some, it's not that easy... even when our hearts are in it so deeply and we've done the best we can to give our beloved pets/birds the best life possible. Time is of essence a lot of the time, and sometimes that microscope or vet's call may be a day late and a dollar too short.

As I said, I whole heartedly agree with the statements above and it is great advice for anyone that raises any kind of bird/animal, and should not be disregarded whatsoever... it's just not always that easy for some. Hopefully it has at least gotten the gears turning for a lot of Peafowl keepers, now... and in the future for those that read this thread

 

[Frosty]

Let an old man inject a few thoughts into this string

I've been in the hatchery and poultry industries for over 40 years now and in that time I've raised about every kind of Aves that are legally allowed to be raised. As Resolution pointed out pure strain Green Peafowl lines are becoming scarce. But I digress...

My first observation is that a lot of us are rushing to the antibiotic bottle before we even know what we are treating.

My second is that a Green Peacock is a valuable bird and shouldn't we be relying on a DVM to diagnosis in a serious situation? I am DPS (That's Doctor of Poultry Science) but I still defer all serious matters to my DVM.

Third thought goes along with Deerman. Gapeworm symptoms often act like respiratory symptoms. So we should all have a school grade microscope and some long wood stick cotton swabs and before we inject or douse or water any drugs into our birds we should be taking a throat culture, slapping it on a slide and looking under the old microscope first to see what's cooking. Especially if you aren't heading to the vet when such a bird is sick. Even laymen can, with a good color reference book (or Google) look under a microscope and identify a host of parasites and bacteria and if the microscope is good enough even some viral pathogens.

I hope your bird recovers quickly and doesn't loose any of his vigor or vitality.

Good Luck!

Unfortunately, not all of us have access to a DVM who is willing to treat our birds... We have a few clinics here, the pet vet tells me to call the farm vet who tells me to call the pet vet.

I do agree that a microscope would be great to have. I have the book 'Veterinary Guide to Parasitology' and a centrifuge that I picked up cheap on eBay, now I need the microscope and pretty much have it picked out. I figure I can check for worms, and if I do give them anything for worms I can follow up to make sure it's effective. In some cases I think it would be possible to catch something going on before it reaches the point of crisis.

 

[AllenWMiller]

Thanks Frosty. I don't know much about North Dakota but do you have a State Poultry Laboratory connected with your NPIP or Department of Agriculture? For many poultry ailments a poultry grower can contact these State Agencies for help if none is available often for little or no charge. Check it out and see may be beneficial.

 

[Resolution]

I too agree with the above statements, especially when it comes to high dollar birds (or any animal of high value actually... but even low dollar birds and animals that have a high sentimental value)... But for those of us unfortunate enough not to have the knowledge to use a microscope or have the resources that afford us a vet's opinion, there is a very fine line that can be drawn for when to dose with an antibiotic or other medication or not to dose, in order to try and save the life of a bird (or animal) that's rapidly going down hill. Who draws that line and when to draw it are the 2 main questions that hang a lot of us newbies up, and account for a lot of losses.

Grass Valley- I have some memories of your part of CA. I went to prep school near Auburn for a few years... Anyway Peeps CA, I can feel where you're coming from. That's where I was when I first started working with my own animal collection. But mentoring with the old timers helped get me around that bend. Working in other countries where antibiotics are (fortunately) not available - I say fortunately because there is such a risk of misuse- leading to much greater problems- I've learned more holistic methods of looking after animals. Many will scoff at the idea but once I started down the path of zootrition- that is animal nutrition- as in zoology not necessarily zoo nutrition - though obviously that applies- most of what we know is based on domestic species... Anyway, once I began working in animal nutrition I began to study the merits of the old traditional methods of the Indians, the Chinese, Balinese and Japanese, the Dutch- and discovered that basically what's working for them is helping the animal boost its own immune system- rather than attacking the immune system and hope we cure whatever ails it- we boost that immune system. That truly works for so many obvious reasons. Fortunately, with the internet and a bit of curiosity -one can locate a cheap used microscope- and just check out online poultry medicine and online avian medicine sources. Look up the symptoms- have a look at what the examples are and have a go at it.

The nice thing about homeopathic remedies is you aren't going to kill your bird while trying to cure it and you're not going to create an anti-biotic strain of some nasty bug by treating the bird with the wrong antibiotic. I keep reading the same suggestions time and again- but if you take a moment and take some data, you'll see people are not having the results they would like to. Know what you're treating before treatment and/or keep turmeric sticks and garlic cloves on hand - omega red krill oil gel capsules and cranberry seed oil gel capsules on hand- chewable vitamin C - honey- and so on-


total regression link could be cow poo but it's interesting never the less

 

[Frosty]

Thanks Frosty. I don't know much about North Dakota but do you have a State Poultry Laboratory connected with your NPIP or Department of Agriculture? For many poultry ailments a poultry grower can contact these State Agencies for help if none is available often for little or no charge. Check it out and see may be beneficial.

I first called the state lab some years ago when I got some BBW poults in the mail. I was having high mortality with strange symptoms and contacted them about having a necropsy done. They wanted a 'fresh dead poult' as in I would have had to kill one of the three (out of fifteen) remaining poults (the one that died an hour earlier wasn't good enough for them) and it would have been $75 for general testing, more if they had to look harder. They didn't seem to care and I passed on that. Then this past summer I was concerned that I could have Mareks going on with my chickens and called the state vets office. According to the Ag website, it's a reportable disease. Their answer? 'Can we send a tech to your place to check for AI? We don't think that's what it is but want to test for it...' Ummm... ok... They didn't charge for that and the tests came back negative. The tech that did the testing said AI isn't common in back yard flocks up here, and said she wasn't concerned once she saw my birds because she said they looked too good to have AI unless it was a low pathogenic strain. I talked to her about my concerns with Mareks, she had no knowledge of the disease or it's symptoms so I showed her what I was seeing that made me think I have it here. While talking to the state vet he said that 'most people that have it depopulate and wait a few months to get more poultry.' Other than that? It might be reportable but they don't seem to care. I have decided to try to breed for resistance on that.

I was worried about the AI testing... a few years ago when I first got my peafowl (Oct 2008), I just had them for a few days when the male had a sinus swell up. I contacted the seller and apparently hers were starting to do the same thing so I think it came with them. She did offer to take them back, I declined. I treated with Tylan and he was back to normal within days. Reading about AI, swollen sinus apparently can be a symptom of that too. Since the testing came back clean, I think I need to get them tested for Mycoplasmosis as soon as I figure out how to do that... I could do the blood draw myself but with my luck the state lab would want a carcass to test. They are also difficult to get on the phone.

That is why I have to read everything I can on line about symptoms and ask for help from folks here... We are pretty much on our own when it comes to poultry. Fortunately I don't have a lot of problems... Something like 4 swollen sinus in the last 15 years, possible Mareks, and the dying poults mentioned above (I think they came from the hatchery with something, never had problems before or since).

 

[PeepsCA]

Quote:
Thanks Res,
Holistic/Homeopathic and Hands On Healing has been the norm in my family's life, for years. For both my family and my pets/livestock. I kind of keep that under my hat tho, cuz I do tend to get some really weird looks and sneers because of it on occasion, lol. Like all remedies, there's a time and place for all of it, and not everything can always be cured/relieved one certain way... so I use what I can, be it homeopathic or traditional, when it's appropriate and which ever will provide the most relief, the fastest. And I agree, boosting the immune systems is always a plus, for both cure and prevention... tho sometimes when things are noticed a little too late and have already progressed too far, other more traditional methods of fixing/curing the issue have to come into play, and quickly.

That BCC link was most interesting, I bookmarked it, lots of fair skin in my family tree

Grass Valley area is nice... but I'm originally from the Mendocino Coast - born and raised there, and do hope to return there some day... even if it is just to be buried on the family plot, lol

I terribly miss the ocean out my front door and the redwoods our my back door, sigh.