Processing Day Support Group ~ HELP us through the Emotions PLEASE!

[jajeanpierre]

If the surgery is preformed properly at a young age then risk of regrowth is low. If any tissue to left behind it will regrow. Older birds tend to have more fragile testes. From research (I am a very science based person) as well as hand on experience I know that they do not have the same nerve reseption that we do, not to say they do not feel pain but it is not in the same way at all. It is one of those things that will always be up for debate!

The science used to say infants didn't feel pain, too, and were subjected up until the late 1980s to open heart surgery without the benefit of anesthesia. That's not a typo--it was just a few decades ago.Babies were given a paralytic drug and no pain meds and no anesthesia. That was standard treatment in America because the science told the surgeons that babies felt no pain. In 1985 a mother was shocked to find that her son had open heart surgery without anesthesia or pain meds. That was normal protocol for pediatric surgeons. She started an awareness campaign and surprise surprise by 1987 there were studies out to prove the obvious--babies felt pain. The medical community changed its guidelines.

If in 1985 pediatric surgeons in America performed surgery--open heart surgery, gastrointestinal surgery--on fully awake, paralyzed babies without any form of pain relief believing they had the science that proved infants didn't feel pain, why would you trust any science suggesting that chickens do not feel tremendous pain as someone opens up their thoracic cavity and rips out their testicles? Common sense suggests otherwise.

 

[TaraBellaBirds]

Nothing sugestes they feel no pain. The wiring of the nervous system is very different from ours, less nerve endings and the brain is wired to process that pain differently. Although I find it horifiing that open heart surgery could be preformed on an unanethitized infant, I also know that even babies brains are not developed to the point where they feel pain in the same way as an adult.
I am not sugessting that everyone should go out and start cutting on their birds! I was taught by someone highly competent and experienced, and am still at the learning stage myself. Everything must be done with respect and understanding of the animal. I don't suggest that these fellows are just 'fine' with the procedure, but I have seen that they are not near as uncomfortable as a human male would be in that some predicamate LOL! I know that by doing this precedure my birds quaility of life is extended. Also with a capon people in the city can enjoy having a beautiful rooster without the crowing or aggression!

 

[Tomtommom]

I highly doubt either party will convince the other party to change their mind. I do know animals can hide pain very very well.... so unless they stuck a bird in a CT scan or something, it seems to me one can't really claim one or the other.

I think it's best we let this one rest

 

[Kassaundra]

I highly doubt either party will convince the other party to change their mind. I do know animals can hide pain very very well.... so unless they stuck a bird in a CT scan or something, it seems to me one can't really claim one or the other.

I think it's best we let this one rest

Totally agree!

 

[MargaretYakoda]

Just adding a bit to the non-debate ... if caponizing is done by someone skilled, it can buy the cockerel many more months of living in the sunshine. Considering what happens to the unwanted male chicks at a large factory hatchery, that's worth a few minutes of pain, in my opinion.
That said, it's not for everyone. I can completely understand why some folks choose not to go that route.

 

[TaraBellaBirds]

Just adding a bit to the non-debate ... if caponizing is done by someone skilled, it can buy the cockerel many more months of living in the sunshine. Considering what happens to the unwanted male chicks at a large factory hatchery, that's worth a few minutes of pain, in my opinion.
That said, it's not for everyone. I can completely understand why some folks choose not to go that route.

I wasn't trying to start an argument.

I have a bad debate habit!!

. It is one of those things that I feel the more information available the better! BYC is such an awesome place for things like this I apologize if I offended anyone on the thread!

 

[jajeanpierre]

I highly doubt either party will convince the other party to change their mind. I do know animals can hide pain very very well.... so unless they stuck a bird in a CT scan or something, it seems to me one can't really claim one or the other.

I think it's best we let this one rest

Perhaps.

I've asked a dear friend of mine, an avian vet with a PhD in reproductive physiology from the Royal Veterinary College in London, England, if he could find me the scientific research to back up my position.

Unfortunately, he is traveling and won't be back in his office for a month or two. I'm hoping he can provide me with the science behind why most countries in the developed world have outlawed the practice for animal welfare concerns. I'll see what he can come up with.

 

[hennible]

It was an informative sharing of opinions

 

[MargaretYakoda]

I wasn't trying to start an argument.  I have a bad debate habit!! .   It is one of those things that I feel the more information available the better!  BYC is such an awesome place for things like this  I apologize if I offended anyone on the thread!

No offense taken. This is, after all, a thread about processing the birds.
There is a thread on BYC all about learning how to caponize. It's an excellent thread, and many people on it are reporting that they're teaching themselves to caponize with extremely good results. Some are even caponizing so as to be able to keep their roosters as pets.
And every once in a while someone gets on that thread and tries to convince everyone there how horrible caponizing is, without actually having read enough of the thread to really understand the discussion.
Now, THAT'S annoying, LOL.

 

[LindaB220]

If the surgery is preformed properly at a young age then risk of regrowth is low. If any tissue to left behind it will regrow. Older birds tend to have more fragile testes. From research (I am a very science based person) as well as hand on experience I know that they do not have the same nerve reseption that we do, not to say they do not feel pain but it is not in the same way at all. It is one of those things that will always be up for debate!

And consider the alternative. They die young. Period. I like the opportunity to give them a long happier life. Capons can be put with baby chicks and will mother them. Imagine the fulfillment of the poor male. People have been doing this for over 2000 years. Capons have very happy lives. Eating and chilling out, then maybe a nap.