Proper design of Roost Bars

[britinpa]

you couldn't talk me into using wood shavings. A little sweet pdz in a little sand go a long way on the coop floor easy to scoop out with a kitty litter scoop

I used shavings in our brooder and when ours first went into the coop. I switched to Sanicare and scoop under the roosts everyone morning. I'm much happier with this - I only use shavings in the nesting boxes. Only need to change out once or twice a year - ideal for our small coop - and saves us money as we only need a couple of bags of it at a time (appox. $9 bag)

 

[Onyxflock]

I recently re-did things in the coop and added a permeant “litter box” type poop tray. I got some pdz but have not put it down yet. Just shavings that I had on hand while working. The tray is at about 54” with the bar 10” above that to the top. (2x4 small side up). One of the hens likes to rest on the 1/2” strip of ply wood I used as a side for the poop box. I’m not quite done and want to add more roosting space, so that might help. Any other ideas to get her up there on her own? Also wondering if I should add a ladder for them? So far they all Seam to be getting up there but we have chick coming in a few weeks and I’m thinking a few months ahead! What about when they get older/slower? I want everyone to have access but don’t want the lower pecking order girls to sleep on the steps.

I had some challenges getting everybody up to the roost in our new set up. One of them would always stop at the top of the ladder & settle in. The others (forgetting that they can fly) got stuck behind her on the laddet & wouldn't hop up to the roost that's 10" above the top rung. Once I moved the ladder to the center from along the wall (something they don't talk about), that eased the traffic backup. For my 2 old fatso's I added a long bar on the top rung so they only had about 6" to jump to the roost. It's funky, but seems to work.

I really wish I'd seen this info because the 2x4 seemed to wide & they get off balance at times.
I may try to shave it down some more, closer to 2.5".

 

[Trisseh]

I have birds that prefer one over the other. I have natural branches as well as 2x4 with the wide side up, mostly because I was concerned that the standard birds I have mixed with the bantams would have a harder time with the branches. Chicken math got me and I added more standards than I was originally planning. Lol. The smaller, lighter birds do prefer the natural branches, except for my one silkie hen and my Hedemora. They both prefer the 2x4s. They’re the birds at the top of the pecking order too, so it’s not that there wasn’t enough room for the lower leveled birds to go up too. My other silkie doesn’t like to roost at all and sits in a makeshift nest in the corner. lol. If I had found the birds squabbling over a specific roost, I would have switched them, but since they all seem to have a preference anyways, they can keep what they have for now. I may wrap all roosts anyways with some rubber for grip and heat retention for winter.

 

[cmom]

I use 2x4's with the wide side up. Have never had a problem. You can also get 2x3's.

 

[Rodrad]

I fear I am about to soil someone's shrine, but here is a modern era reference to proper roost bar design:

http://www.yourchickens.co.uk/care-and-advice/the-perfect-perch-1-2842822

It is a layman's summary of this study (which I cannot open or I would have only referenced it):

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21406354

So best roost bar design is basically a 2 x 2 (nominal 1.5" x 1.5") square wooden pole with top edges rounded over slightly. It is NOT a 2 x 4, flat side up. (45mm = 1.75")

This is basically the same conclusion that was referenced in poultry husbandry books published over 100 years ago......except those actually referenced 1" x 2" roost bars, narrow side up......but their test birds were smaller leghorns. These smaller roosts, with a flat side on top, allow birds to grasp roost with their toes, front and back and will support their weight on both the keel bone and their feet.

For those of you who advocate the 2 x 4 wide side up (as near as I can tell, it is based 100% on the notion that birds need to keep their toes warm), rather than referencing a bunch of anecdotal evidence or your own personal preference, please rebut this with some scientific research. I think what you will find instead is that birds roosting on a 2 x 4, wide side, will still wrap their front toes over the front edge (exactly the same as on a 2 x 2), will still rest part of their weight on the keel bone, but have no ability to grasp the roost with their back toes, which means they struggle with balance. With birds that perch (like chickens), to grasp the roost they wrap their front toes over the front, back toe over the back and when they crouch down, tendons in their legs flex the toes to lock down on the perch (roost bar). The can't do that on a wide board. At first I thought it was a shame the scientific study did not include this, but then realized the scientific community may have seen testing wide boards as roosting perches so far out of whack it never occurred to them to consider it? Anyway, if you feel strongly about it, find us some research where it has been tested. I'd really like to see it.

And lastly, place all roost bars at the same height. NO ladder styles, unless intent of the ladder is to allow them steps to get to the top rung. And roost bars elevated higher than any nests. That is if you want to follow established poultry science and do it right.

Can one cut 2x4 and thus have the proper roosting bar? It would be actual 1.5”x1.75”. So narrow side can be up.

 

[jes1766]

My chickens use my 2x4 rafters in the coop and the 2x4 perches I have for them. Small side up and in there run I have a couple of tree branches. They free range during the day so they hang out on a fallen cedar tree about 4’ diameter.

 

[Rodrad]

I fear I am about to soil someone's shrine, but here is a modern era reference to proper roost bar design:

http://www.yourchickens.co.uk/care-and-advice/the-perfect-perch-1-2842822

It is a layman's summary of this study (which I cannot open or I would have only referenced it):

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21406354

So best roost bar design is basically a 2 x 2 (nominal 1.5" x 1.5") square wooden pole with top edges rounded over slightly. It is NOT a 2 x 4, flat side up. (45mm = 1.75")

This is basically the same conclusion that was referenced in poultry husbandry books published over 100 years ago......except those actually referenced 1" x 2" roost bars, narrow side up......but their test birds were smaller leghorns. These smaller roosts, with a flat side on top, allow birds to grasp roost with their toes, front and back and will support their weight on both the keel bone and their feet.

For those of you who advocate the 2 x 4 wide side up (as near as I can tell, it is based 100% on the notion that birds need to keep their toes warm), rather than referencing a bunch of anecdotal evidence or your own personal preference, please rebut this with some scientific research. I think what you will find instead is that birds roosting on a 2 x 4, wide side, will still wrap their front toes over the front edge (exactly the same as on a 2 x 2), will still rest part of their weight on the keel bone, but have no ability to grasp the roost with their back toes, which means they struggle with balance. With birds that perch (like chickens), to grasp the roost they wrap their front toes over the front, back toe over the back and when they crouch down, tendons in their legs flex the toes to lock down on the perch (roost bar). The can't do that on a wide board. At first I thought it was a shame the scientific study did not include this, but then realized the scientific community may have seen testing wide boards as roosting perches so far out of whack it never occurred to them to consider it? Anyway, if you feel strongly about it, find us some research where it has been tested. I'd really like to see it.

And lastly, place all roost bars at the same height. NO ladder styles, unless intent of the ladder is to allow them steps to get to the top rung. And roost bars elevated higher than any nests. That is if you want to follow established poultry science and do it right.

I agree with your points why not to use 2x4 flat side up. However, a narrow side up would be exactly 1.5” which is probably right size (with edges rounded off).

One confusing thing is that you mentioned at the very beginning of your article that the best design is 2x2 (NOMINAL 1.5”x1.5”) square wooden pole. I think that you may reversed the nomenclature, which should be NOMINAL 2x2 (ACTUAL 1.5”x1.5”).

in the meantime, have you found any scientific study which supports wider than 1.5” square plank for the roost?

 

[Rodrad]

How about you don't have to clean wood shavings? Kitty litter scoop sounds like work. I don't want to do unnecessary work. I have a 5x7 coop with a thick layer of wood shavings on the floor, no poop boards, no sand, no kitty litter scoop, no extra work. The chickens moved in 4 months ago and I haven't cleaned it yet. It doesn't smell. They scratch around and mix the poop with the shavings, everything stays bone dry. I don't intend to clean it until late fall, when I dismantle the garden, at which point I'll cart everything out of the coop and bury it in the garden to compost over winter. I'll do another emptying out of the coop in the spring, and put the dirty bedding in a compost pile to wait until fall, when I'll put that in the garden as well. So, I'm thinking shavings with no poop boards win over sand in my books - deep clean twice a year, and no cleaning in-between! Beats scooping every day, or however often people with the kitty litter scoops do it. Kitty litter scoops are for kitties

Hi, I am a newbie, but I like your approach. However, what I read about the “deep litter“ system (which is basically what you are doing) it shouldn’t be emptied every spring since during the winter the composting process produces a low heat which surely can help in cold nights of winter.

 

[K0k0shka]

Hi, I am a newbie, but I like your approach. However, what I read about the “deep litter“ system (which is basically what you are doing) it shouldn’t be emptied every spring since during the winter the composting process produces a low heat which surely can help in cold nights of winter.

What I do is deep bedding, not deep litter. The difference is that deep litter composts and needs moisture, while deep bedding is bone dry and doesn’t compost. I don’t want deep litter because it doesn’t work well on a wooden floor, it needs bare dirt which is not what I have. Also, I don’t want the moisture (it can freeze in the winter, contribute to coop humidity, or smell if not done right). Deep bedding - the dry method - is less maintenance and easier. I bury the dirty bedding in the garden in the fall, and let it compost there overwinter, so I still get compost in the end, just not in the coop.

 

[Rodrad]

Hi, I am a newbie, but I like your approach. However, what I read about the “deep litter“ system (which is basically what you are doing) it shouldn’t be emptied every spring since during the winter the composting process produces a low heat which surely can help in cold nights of winter.

BTW, are you possibly related to any Slavic nation, in particular to Serbia/Croatian? I know that chicken in Serbian is kokoshka!