protein for different types of chickens

[Perris]

Whether high fat is good or bad for chickens (vs. high carbohydrates) is one question. I don't know for sure on that.

But whether mealworms are "low fat" is something with a very definite answer: they are NOT low fat, in context of a chicken diet. (I notice insects are mentioned as high fat in the quote you gave, too.)

So this statement is just plain wrong:

25% fat by weight is not a "low fat" protein source.

there are lots of just plain wrong statements all over BYC. My point is that when people focus on the numbers they miss the bigger picture.

 

[U_Stormcrow]

If you are formulating feed, you can take that into account and make appropriate adjustments. But that doesn't change the fact that a typical ration for chickens is formulated to (again, typically) 16-20% protein, 2.5-6% fat, and enough carbs to bring the mKe to somewhere between low 12 and high 13 MJ/kg. Even a small amount of a particularly dense source of some nutrient can result in a *potentially* concerning imbalance.

Now, one may consider the overall picture and determine that, in this specific case, it's not a concern, or its an acceptable level of risk - but simply waving away numbers in hopes things work out, or because (with effort) they can be balanced in no way assures that blithe dismissal of even considering potential consequences will ultimately benefit your birds.

 

[Perris]

I do not dismiss the figures, blithely or otherwise; I don’t get hung up on figures printed on a bag, or on what is normal in the feed industry, because I recognize their variability more than most do, it seems. In detail the figures for mealworms seem to vary almost as often as they are measured. In the wider chicken feed picture, averages are used, and in all likelihood they will be inaccurate in any given case. A minimum, maximum or a range of figures is given on the label for many individual feed components to reflect this – a minimum and a maximum quantity of say salt, or calcium, in the feed in the bag – again on average, because the manufacturer cannot know or control what exactly is in the bag.

Then there is the difference between the theoretical figure in the laboratory and the actual figure in a chicken’s gut. They are not perfect eating machines so do not digest and absorb 100% of what they consume. Hence the Digestible Indispensable Amino Acid Score (DIAAS) is a better guide to the protein value of foods than is the Protein Digestibility-corrected Amino Acid Score (PDCAAS) but unfortunately, most foods do not have a DIASS score yet (see FAO 2023).

On top of that, how good a chicken’s digestive system is varies significantly and individually, demonstrably with at least age, breed, exposure to microbiota to date, and probably a lot else besides that has not been established by research yet. I think that to assume that manipulating the figures that happen to be to hand will assure a balanced healthy diet is wishful thinking.

 

[NatJ]

I think that to assume that manipulating the figures that happen to be to hand will assure a balanced healthy diet is wishful thinking.

On the other hand, when the figures show something as very badly unbalanced, I think it is worth at least considering that there might be a problem.

 

[Perris]

On the other hand, when the figures show something as very badly unbalanced, I think it is worth at least considering that there might be a problem.

Indeed, that is wise where the keeper controls exactly what they are eating all the time. But when the flock gets about half its food from foraging whatever it wants and can catch/ find, the vast majority of it as yet unanalysed in a lab, it is neither possible nor necessary.

Where the keeper, by choice or circumstance, is not in complete control of the whole diet, I think the best approach is to ensure a varied diet in what is given, let the chickens select what they want from it, and watch them closely. If they indicate that something might be deficient, focus on supplementing that then.