Pullet still? Aracauna/Cochin mix and Aracauna/Marans mix

[lilbeastpdx]

So that bird in question crowed again today. I took two videos so you could hear it in one, and see it in the other. She only crows after the actual rooster finishes crowing, and while the rooster crows throughout the day, I only hear her do this around 8am--until I open the coop and let them out. Should I wait? This bird has no wattles and her comb is still only pink. The feathering looks like a hen too.

 

[junebuggena]

Ameraucana don't have wattles, so even if it is a cockerel, this bird probably won't develop them. Is it possible that this bird is younger than 20 weeks? In the first pictures on this thread, they look to be about 6 to 8 weeks instead of 12 weeks.

 

[lilbeastpdx]

Ameraucana don't have wattles, so even if it is a cockerel, this bird probably won't develop them. Is it possible that this bird is younger than 20 weeks? In the first pictures on this thread, they look to be about 6 to 8 weeks instead of 12 weeks.

Nope. She was born on March 28.

 

[junebuggena]

Then you have yourself a crowing pullet. Usually, when a female starts crowing, she is a couple years old and the dominant bird in the flock.

 

[lilbeastpdx]

Then you have yourself a crowing pullet. Usually, when a female starts crowing, she is a couple years old and the dominant bird in the flock.

Well, I hope you are right junebuggena! 70% of my birds were roos, and I would be devastated to give away another one at this point. I was waiting for eggs at this point, not roos.

 

[lilbeastpdx]

Then you have yourself a crowing pullet. Usually, when a female starts crowing, she is a couple years old and the dominant bird in the flock.

On another thread there are some adamant folks saying its a hen-feathered cockerel, or a stealth cockerel, or a late developing one. Bizarre. The bird looks nothing like a roo to me.

 

[Lady of McCamley]

Yes, that is definitely a crow and not an egg song..which makes it highly likely you've got a young rooster as by far it is only roosters who crow especially in juvenile birds.

While popular in anecdotal stories, in statistics, a crowing pullet is a long shot. Most people who think they have a crowing pullet find out they have a juvenile rooster. (A number of the popular anecdotes on the web have later been updated with "we had a rooster all along.")

Your photos are nondescript...I could go either way from the photos alone...looks soft feathered like female feathering in most of them, with possibly some saddle in one photo, but the neck hackles appear to be more male, albeit patterning could confuse there, and there is a lot of "green sheen" which can indicate the color of the male, but females can have that too.

However, the crowing at this age places me fairly solid in the "rooster" camp.

Remember, you have Cochin in the background genetics, and Cochins are soft feathered naturally, even the males, and they take a long time to mature making sexing a Cochin notoriously harder to do. Ditto, Ameraucanas take longer to mature. So the secondary feathering may not show up until after the adult molt when the testicles are more mature and sending out dominant hormones.

More to the point It is also fairly common to have hen feathering in males. Certain breeds are known for male hen feathering such as Sebrights and a number of games. Wyandottes and Hamburgs also can exhibit this trait. In those breeds, sexing from feathers is problematic as the females and males look identical in feathering color and form (soft feathered).

The genetics for feathering are fairly complex and rely on the expression of the hormones to determine feather shape. Technically, all chickens are neutral feathered, but the additional hormones upon sexual maturity create the adult patterning. Estrogen turns the feathers into a female soft pattern (ETA or rather keeps the feathers in the neutral female pattern) while the expression of testosterone will turn the pattern into typical rooster feathers. In the henny feathered breeds, there is a switch that does not inhibit the additional estrogen in the males which results in henny feathering.

With mix breeds, the genetics can become quite complex, especially if the "Ameraucana" in the parentage was really Easter Egger...throw in the potential of an EE parent with a parentage with potential for hen feathered males (ie game in the background), you could exhibit genetics for hen feathering in the odd male.

As to crowing pullets. Yes, it does occur, but it is not common and almost always occurs when there is aging or damage or disease to the ovary. Hens have one working ovary, the other gland remains dormant but will activate if the ovary fails. Then the other gonad will kick in with androgens bringing in male characteristics (phenotype feathers and vocal changes), however the bird still remains female genetically (genotype). Similar to an aging woman in menopause exhibiting a deepening voice and some chin whiskers.

Therefore anecdotal tales of dominant hens crowing does occur, but almost always in an older female (hence why she was dominant) and due to aging or disease which shut down her ovary.

So by far the greatest likelihood is you have a rooster that will eventually get secondary sex feathers (saddle and sickle in tail) and bigger comb (albeit not really big as pea combs don't always get large).

Second greatest likelihood is you have a "henny feathered" rooster...possibly from some game in the background.

The smallest likelihood is a crowing pullet. That does happen on infrequent occasion, but the vast majority of folk who think they have a crowing pullet end up with a slow maturing or hen feathered male.

Time will tell. Let us know if he begins to exhibit more male traits or she lays an egg.

And yes the world of poultry is filled with oddities and surprises.

LofMc

Sex "reversal" in chickens (notice this is phenotype only...the bird is still a female genetically, it is hormonal imbalance that provides the crowing and male feathers...akin to a menopausal woman getting chin "whiskers" and voice deepening.)
http://mysrf.org/pdf/pdf_poultry/p11.pdf

hen-feathered males
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hen_feathering_in_cocks (Wikipedia is never my favorite cite, but it has good citations in the article, so I include it here)
http://www.extension.org/pages/6543...ept-in-small-and-backyard-flocks#.VcpKOvlViko
https://www.backyardchickens.com/t/574747/hen-feathering (interesting thread on henny feathering)

 

[Lady of McCamley]

I also went back to the original photos of this bird and looked at each one slowly in succession.

You have quite a bit of change since I first proclaimed it a pullet...in that original, first photo, it had nice flat, dull black, with typical pattern around the hackles.

Something has kicked in since those first photos.

The later photos show a deepening green gloss and iridescent sheen, especially on the back feathers, very typical of male feathers. And the hackles have developed significantly.

Again, the feathers alone are not conclusive as there still remains a general roundness to the back feathers, however I believe I am seeing changes imposed by the expression of testosterone in the feathers...which will likely bring about secondary changes in time (saddles and sickle tail)...and would account for the crowing now.

I think you have a slowly developing rooster just from the photos, then assured by the crowing.

But again...time will tell if you have stumbled onto an oddity.

Whatever, when the dust finally settles, I would not breed forward a henny feathered male or a crowing female, assuming their hormonal imbalances produce fertility. You do want to keep sexing as easy as possible and strong sex traits generally indicate better stock.

LofMc

 

[lilbeastpdx]

LorMc,

What you say makes sense to me. I, too, noticed that it developed the green sheen in a few days' time. I noticed the hackles becoming longer, and in the last week, the tail feathers went up...quite a bit. The bird itself is petite--in fact, my 11-week-old australorp and SLW are both almost as big as this 20-week-old one. You are likely correct. Thank you for those incredible explanations--I had no idea that having chickens was going to challenge my type A personality so much!

However, this bird in question is a mix of ameracauna and copper marans (not cochin). I received five chicks from a huge flock--my friend has a farm nearby and she regularly has mixed chicks because she has about 50 birds. But there were only two roosters, an ameracauna and a cochin. She said the mom was copper marans and ameracauna.

Now...she has also called it Aracauna, and I just don't for sure which at this point. She has called them EE's too. So... (This is not very exact, I apologize).

Does that change any of your opinions? And can a hen mimic the crow of another rooster (I do have a blue polish rooster that crows all day long instead of only in the morning and only when the coop is shut like this one does)?

Lastly, the bird below... I was told THIS one is cochin/aracauna mix. Do you think it is a boy too? 20 weeks old and clucks a lot, but that is about it. Her siblings (the other three I had) all crowed by 10 weeks and were given away. But now, I am becoming very curious. Your thoughts?

 

[enola]

Is the picture just not showing on my phone??