Puppy behaving badly

[dainerra]

Somewhere the importance of dogs in a low intensity production setting has been forgotten. Some parties are bringing expectations into mix that indicate dogs are overwhelmingly a threat. I can think of no animal domestication efforts, excepting those with fishes, that did not involve dogs for either herding or guarding. Now we have parties with what are best described as over priced pets that are directing us away from one of the many values dogs have, namely the farm setting. You do not have to have a Ph D in animal behavior or formal training as a dog trainer to have trustworthy dogs. When did this all become so difficult?

when people use their dogs for working, be it herding or police work or guarding the property, do you think that they did no training? I know many who do all of the above and they put in a LOT of work. Not a couple hours here and there of training, but a full day's work every day with the flock.
In a basic farm setting, again the dogs are just turned out and left to roam the farm. They are with the farmer, working from dawn till dusk. The dogs learned by doing and were never left to figure it out themselves. Also, dogs who DIDN'T earn their keep were gone.
So, it's not that it is more difficult to train the dogs. It's that people today seem to assume that TADA the dog will magically be born knowing all it needs to know. Herding breeds will have the basic instinct, but they still need that instinct to be shaped into something useful. In fact, those natural instincts are the main complaint of owners. Herding = chasing and moving animals. With chickens, that equals dead birds UNLESS you put in the training to shape that instinct into something useful.

 

[centrarchid]

when people use their dogs for working, be it herding or police work or guarding the property, do you think that they did no training? I know many who do all of the above and they put in a LOT of work. Not a couple hours here and there of training, but a full day's work every day with the flock.
In a basic farm setting, again the dogs are just turned out and left to roam the farm. They are with the farmer, working from dawn till dusk. The dogs learned by doing and were never left to figure it out themselves. Also, dogs who DIDN'T earn their keep were gone.
So, it's not that it is more difficult to train the dogs. It's that people today seem to assume that TADA the dog will magically be born knowing all it needs to know. Herding breeds will have the basic instinct, but they still need that instinct to be shaped into something useful. In fact, those natural instincts are the main complaint of owners. Herding = chasing and moving animals. With chickens, that equals dead birds UNLESS you put in the training to shape that instinct into something useful.

Most parties keeping dogs in proximity to livestock did not set out with any determined formula for training. That is a recent development. Most people with dogs that function around livestock did not invest a great deal of time overlording the dogs. Thorough training involved may have occurred over months or even years but the direct effort involved was likely on the order of hours spread out over the months or years. Effort was so diffuse the people involved probably where not aware of what did or did not work. Nonetheless many if not most farmers got their dogs on track.

A very important point is that hunting dogs were a major component of the farm dog assemblage, not just the herding and now the recently imported large LGD's so frequently stressed. Ultimately the breed point is of little consequence unless an excuse is needed to cover ones inability to break dog of harming livestock.

The prey drive is bunk. My grandfather always had a good number of foxhounds interspersed around cockyard and they could trusted without oversight with poultry and yet had more than adequate capacity hunting fox. Examples of similar nature can be found thru out this site.

 

[dainerra]

just because they did not follow a "written formula" doesn't mean they had no method for training. The dogs learned by doing the work. Day in, day out. Dogs that didn't make the grade were gotten rid of.

 

[centrarchid]

just because they did not follow a "written formula" doesn't mean they had no method for training. The dogs learned by doing the work. Day in, day out. Dogs that didn't make the grade were gotten rid of.

With respect to poultry, we never got rid of a dog for killing. We simply invested more effort in breaking the chicken killing habit. Our games were quit valuable, certainly more so than production breeds on an individual basis so losses to dogs were not taken lightly. Dogs were selected or culled based upon hunting prowess and health only. Since I can train hunting dogs to be truely chicken friendly, maybe you can pay me to train you to do same?

 

[moonshadowmama]

********UPDATE*******
After oodles of consistent, training and vigilance, My Dash has become a model citizen. His true test was actually the other day but it was an accident. I had to be out of town for the day leaving the husband to run the Fort alone. Upon returning in the late afternoon, I noticed husbands truck was gone meaning he was with it, and Dash was laying on the front porch with Stew, Raina, and Goldie nearby cleaning the bugs out of the garden

, fully feathered and looking mighty happy. Husband had been called into the office hours before for an emergency, so he had to leave rather quickly, forgetting of course to put Dash in his kennel. Since then I have allowed him to mingle quite successfully with our 2 month old chicks and of course my older birds I nearly have no worries. So proud of my boy, he shows absolutely no interest in my chickens regardless of weather he knows I am watching or not. I had to set up surveillance for all corners of the property and he has yet to show any sign of a fail in his training. Not ready to completely let my guard down yet, knowing he is still just a pup and Aussies get bored easily. I am thinking he has the makings of a fantastic farm dog

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[Kevin565]

This is wonderful news!

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[moonshadowmama]

I did fail to mention that Dash"s training, and conditioning is ongoing. We are still in the early stages of him becoming the best dog he can be, but he is showing promise. Will I ever be able to completely trust him? Dash is a Dog, Dogs are ancestors to one of the most efficient predators to this day. So NO I have no illusions of Dash rasing a clutch of baby ducks, under a rainbow bridge with his friend the Unicorn. Simply put, a dog is a dog, but my Dash stole my heart and is worth my constant wary eye.

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[Firefighter Chick]

As you can see, people are rather...eh...pasionate about this subject. I'll tell you what I did with my dogs. I have two lab mixes. One is eight and one is two. I had been free ranging my birds since they were little and one day, when I stepped inside the house, I heard a screeching outside. I ran out and found my dogs munching on a hen and had pulled her skin off her neck. I was surprised she wasn't dead, but she ended up dying later. My dogs are in a wireless containment system and the chickens wandered into their area. I made sure to lock the dogs up and then eventually tie them on a cable away from where the chickens typically go. I would bring a chicken up to them, and if they showed interest in it, they were scolded. They needed to submit and ignore the chicken. I think the rooster bit them a couple of times which probably helped. The dogs are still in the wireless containment area and the chickens free range where they want. I think the hens know where the dogs are and some avoid them. The young chickens don't stray far from the coop which is quite out of reach from the dogs. The dogs now think of the chickens as a normal happening on the farm. I had to do the same thing (minus the face to face desensitizing) when my in laws unloaded cattle on the adjoining pasture. Dogs were tied up so they wouldn't try rushing the fence. Any interest ("pointing" staring, tail up) at the cows resulted in a scold. My older dog is quite the protector and his instinct is to protect, so I have to reassure him that we are safe with the cattle. The younger one wants to chase and rough house so we have to work with her differently. I'm not a certified dog trainer, so take what I said with a grain of salt. I felt so guilty when my hen was ravaged by my dogs. Try not to feel bad. Either the chickens or the dog need to be pent up while the other is out. This may or may not change with time. Hopefully you are able to get some other training tips from others.

 

[nzpouter]

********UPDATE*******
After oodles of consistent, training and vigilance, My Dash has become a model citizen.  His true test was actually the other day but it was an accident.  I had to be out of town for the day leaving the husband to run the Fort alone.  Upon returning in the late afternoon, I noticed husbands truck was gone meaning he was with it, and Dash was laying on the front porch with Stew, Raina, and Goldie nearby cleaning the bugs out of the garden:yiipchick , fully feathered and looking mighty happy.  Husband had been called into the office hours before for an emergency, so he had to leave rather quickly, forgetting of course to put Dash in his kennel.  Since then I have allowed him to mingle quite successfully with our 2 month old chicks and of course my older birds I nearly have no worries.  So proud of my boy, he shows absolutely no interest in my chickens regardless of weather he knows I am watching or not.  I had to set up surveillance for all corners of the property and he has yet to show any sign of a fail in his training.  Not ready to completely let my guard down yet, knowing he is still just a pup and Aussies get bored easily.  I am thinking he has the makings of a fantastic farm dog .

good stuff... all our dogs (whatever breeds) run with all our other animals, that's what's required of them if they want to live a long happy live here. Accident can and do happen when they're pups... but none make a habit out of it.

 

[jeepgurl]

This is kinda gross, but my newfie did the same thing. I tied the remains of the chicken to his collar and he walked around with it for two days. He never killed another chicken.