PURE-PUREST BREEDS (The base of breeds)

Discussion in 'Exhibition, Genetics, & Breeding to the SOP' started by GhettoRoo, Oct 16, 2014.

  1. GhettoRoo

    GhettoRoo Chillin' With My Peeps

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    Good evening, afternoon, or what is in your place now. :)
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    So my main question wich is the base breeds-PURE, of all today most popular breeds..
    And the ledder down, like family tree, dunno. :D
    And how from them are maked other breeds. I understand if I take ones breed Rooster and others breed Hen, I got something from both, my unique one.
    But how is doing the putting more than two breeds..
    So, for example take Vorwerk breed. Quote: (They were first shown in 1912 and are thought to have come from Lakenvelders, Orpingtons, Ramelslohers and Andalusians.)
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    So, If I want to make my first fresh Vorwerk. how do I get to it?
    And if i want, for example 3 breeds in one, how do I combine them?
    + some extra info about breed crossing.. See in one post something like, this dont be good cross, because E- E+ or smth like this, what do mean these letters. And where to get them.
    Thanks! :)
     
    Last edited: Oct 16, 2014
  2. chooks4life

    chooks4life Overrun With Chickens

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    Hope you don't mind if I ask... What is your native language? I assume English is not your native tongue, and maybe you're using a translator program or application?

    I only ask because while what I can understand of your questions seems interesting, I can't fully understand what you're trying to say there. I know Bing and Google translators give wildly differing results for the same sentence in different languages, even when you then put the same sentence back into them without anything altered they re-translate it into something different again. There's better browser translators out there though.

    Best wishes.
     
  3. chooks4life

    chooks4life Overrun With Chickens

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    Hope this helps.

    Best wishes.
     
  4. GhettoRoo

    GhettoRoo Chillin' With My Peeps

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    It's not english, yes. It's far from it. ``Mana valoda izskatās šādi, ar zīmēm, kuras nav angļu valodā.`` U can translate it. But I`m not translate my sentences, mby some of words in google translate.
    Ok, I will give a second try. The main thing what I want to know is how is made, for example, Vorwerk breed.. by points, steps... Wich breed crossed with wich, first and so.. If I want to make, make, the word: make isnt correct? Create? Create it. :D
    And information about breed crossing. How to cross them.. If I want 3 breeds in one.. u know? I dont know, I think it`s almost good to understand, mby someone else take a try. :D
     
  5. GhettoRoo

    GhettoRoo Chillin' With My Peeps

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    Yes i am looking for information on the origins of breeds, or the starting breedings, and the progression into their modern descendants.
    Yes. how breeds are made of more than two breeds, i.e. four-way crosses or when a new breed is made of many others.
    I am asking how to reconstruct Vorwerk using the original breeds it was developed from.

    Yes, like this, letters. we ar on right way. :)

    We can skip 2 sentences u dont understant, the answers you write from what you understand is from them too.
     
    Last edited: Oct 16, 2014
  6. gjensen

    gjensen Overrun With Chickens

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    The answers to your questions are not simple, if you are looking for information on the reconstruction of breeds.

    First you have to have a good understanding of the breed to be constructed.

    It is helpful to know what was used to create the breed, and why. What traits were contributed by using that breed?

    Knowing a history of a breed would be helpful.

    The how to do it would be based on your knowledge of poultry genetics, and what traits a breed contributed.

    It is important to foresee what your problems and challenges would be at each step. This requires knowledge and experience.

    Lastly, it requires your skill, experience, and dedication. There are not any step by step instructions.

    It is easier to figure out how to make a color variety than it is to remake and perfect a breed.

    Again. It requires a lot of money, patience, time, skill, knowledge, experience, dedication, perseverance, and housing. If you have all of these, you can figure the rest out.

    These projects are easy to start and very difficult to finish. Starting and bringing it to any resemblance of perfection are two different things. It is a project that never comes to an end.

    Many breeds and varieties have a known history. Some do not. Still you never know what is not known. You have to know what you are looking at along the way.
     
  7. chooks4life

    chooks4life Overrun With Chickens

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    Latvian is the language Google translate came up with.

    Ok, so, you want to recreate or remake the Vorwerk breed, you are looking for a plan to follow step by step, if I understand.

    I'm not sure what you mean by how to cross three breeds in one, maybe you are talking about a breeding plan to integrate the different breeds into the one? So, how all those different breeds became the Vorwerk, or how you can take 3 or more breeds and reconstruct the Vorwerk breed. (?)

    As gjensen said, it takes a good idea of what you're aiming for, it's potentially quite complicated (though a good teacher can make any subject simple, just about).

    I am not an expert on breeds at all, but I can find information on it... What that information is worth is up for debate. Seems to me there is lots of disagreement on what they are even made out of, lol! The following sources claim different breeds went into the makeup of the Vorwerk. I don't know which is right.

    Quote: This one contains a pic and some info on one breeding plan they reckon is indefinitely sustainable. For mixing 4 or more breeds, with a planned outcome, well, that's so complicated I think you need to ask some experts for that info.
    Quote: This may or may not be useful to you, I don't know.

    Anyway, lots of people with far more knowledge than myself on breeding, on this forum, the forums I linked to, and other places... I hope someone with the right answers can help you out with a breeding plan and the right info. :)

    Best wishes.
     
  8. GhettoRoo

    GhettoRoo Chillin' With My Peeps

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    Yes. The info you gave me is absoulutely on right way. :) Thanks for your time. A lot of info, and kind a hard to understand well, if I want to dig too deep, I need to talk with someone from my country, who have some knowledge or experience in this.

    So turn to this.
    Information on the origins of breeds, or the starting breedings, and the progression into their modern descendants.

    Game chickens will be te strongest, faster ones yes? Cuz some experts, had make them, and there's no better varities. So we will not find anyone else who can beat them?
    I'm actually interesed about all breeds roosters, wich one will win the cockfight. I'm not sadist, dont understand me wrong. :)
    Im looking for example make my Vorwerk cross with some malay chick, to just make him more athletic.
    Is there a info what is the factor for better, stronger rooster? Wich breeds have the strongest beaks, legs, wings etc
    Thanks.
     
  9. chooks4life

    chooks4life Overrun With Chickens

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  10. GhettoRoo

    GhettoRoo Chillin' With My Peeps

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    Ohh, man, good information. I appreciate it.
    In first posts I was talking about recreate Vorwerk origin..
    About cross malay with Vorwerk was another thing..

    thriving landrace breed. Which are them?
    mby like this? Appenzeller Spitzhaubens- https://www.omlet.co.uk/breeds/chickens/appenzeller+spitzhauben/
    Actually Im looking for this Breed, guess they genetics are stronger than lot of other breeds...

    ``overall toughest type of all breeds, or whether you're trying to develop the most tough breed for fighting purposes?``

    For fighting purposes too yes. I guess there can be strong rooster, but he could lose the fight becouse of lack of fighting instincts?

    won't work if the ones you get come from a docile family line. All things being equal, any reasonably fit and healthy rooster will still only be as good a fighter as his experience, instincts, and inclinations allow.

    Yes. But every Breed has his fighting instinct, so wich ones had the best? There in cock fighting is no big mathematic, so if rooster is ready to fight he will. But the speed, kick strenght etc will play a key role.
    Yes, docile one will not be as good as the one growed in harsh times.
    But so. Both breeds, grow in same way. For example from chicken leg, to full growth, with brother roosters, so they will have a good sparing, etc..
    Besides this all Im looking for rooster too, who actually can defend the flock from predators..
    In our country descriptions the best description for this was for Rhode Island Red.. (Could kill intruder fox, dog)

    We actually could chat about that, will black rock win RIR? and other breeds. :D

    combined flock keeping method.

    I had too, and watching differently chicken types, genes, breeds, I can see wich one isnt more agree with low pecking order, will stay till last. Had few 3.5 months oldies, which are stubbornly,
    But Vorwerk was more tolerant than them. But the end better is that who is stronger. Enjoy watching this all thing..


    You'd also need a bird known for having a strong heart and respiratory system.

    If I'm talking about good rooster, I'm more to that he is strong, brave, fast, and good owner of hens too.
    So, if my Vorwerk rooster had the genes, his ladies are good layers, he could be worse in some way than rooster, whichs breed lay less?

    Hope you get some summary from all I wrote, It's kind about the same. :)
    Strongest roosters.

    Black coloured breeds could be stronger than others.... Good information. Will take a bigger look at this..
     
    Last edited: Oct 17, 2014

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