Putting fat chickens on a diet

[NatJ]

The way I use scratch is actually to encourage the hens to move more, and simulate foraging behavior. I don't use much - just one handful - but I scatter it all over the run, so they have to go and look for it. My run has a lot of logs and things, and a shrub, so the chickens have to go under, over and around things. They will turn the bedding upside down inch by inch looking for every lost grain of scratch, and will do this all afternoon, just in case they missed some I'm not sure if the calories from the scratch cancel out the exercise of foraging for it, but that's the most reliable way to get them to move.

If you take a rake or something and re-arrange the bedding without adding scratch, will they do just as much scratching? It might be worth trying.

They might spread it back out, not find enough goodies, and stop looking. Or they might find enough little bugs or whatever and keep scratching anyway.

 

[K0k0shka]

So, do you have anything 3ft high in the run that she jumps up on? Or can you make one? Does she look okay doing it?
Because the first thing fat should affect is a birds ability to get off the ground...

This particular hen has other complications besides, potentially, her weight, so she's not a good example of their use of heights in general... She has EYP and bumblefoot and avoids big jumps for that reason. Their roost in the coop is 4 feet tall, but they have two intermediate roosts spaced evenly between the floor and the top roost. All of the chickens use those to reach the highest roost, and all of them jump from the tallest one straight to the ground (thick pine shavings bedding). For some reason they don't want to go down incrementally. In the run, they have that "jungle gym" thing I built for them out of wide tree limbs (~6" diameter). The highest level is also about 4 feet, with 2 intermediate levels. All of the Orpingtons prefer the bottom level, some will occasionally use the middle level (the bird with the issues only uses the bottom), and only the Barnevelders will ever use the top level, and rarely. None of them seem to like climbing and heights, unless it's at night. On the rare occasion when I forgot to adjust the timer on their auto door for the growing days, and they got locked outside, every single one roosted on the top branch.

Does she even have experience with birds?
I doubt it.
Her lack of logical thinking, instead of 'knowing it all', would put me right off of her...
.....and I surely wouldn't do anything she says based on that.

She is one of the two vets in my area who will see chickens, and was recommended to me by a very good chicken-keeping friend of mine. But I have been very disappointed. Next time I need a vet, I'll try the second one and hope they are better... I don't have a lot of options though, most vets who even see birds only accept "standard pet birds" like parrots.

Get them out of the run and make them run. Even an hour a day can make a difference if you ensure they keep moving and forage. I take the allotment chickens around the allotments and I herd them so they keep moving. Most of the time the opportunity to explore the next foraging opportunity keeps them on the go.

I'm in the suburbs, I don't have anywhere to let them run I let them into my fenced-in garden during the off season to look for bugs, that's about all I can do.

She absolutely would not like one of my roosters then. He's at least 10lbs

APA standards for weight of a full grown rooster can vary a lot.

Well she was talking about hens, and hens don't weigh as much as roosters... But I agree, "hen" isn't any one single thing, and there is no one good number. She seems to only think of them in terms of "the big ones" (large fowl) and "the little ones" (bantam) and apply the same metrics to everything within those categories, which is just ignorant. Just between my two breeds of "big ones", the English Orps are probably at least twice the size of the Barnevelders, while being in the same category, so they can't be judged by the same metric...

Now, a lean (not muscular) high production layer of over 7 lbs might be considered obese, which might be where her knowledge stops.

That's my guess, too, that her experience is limited to production breeds, because a lot of recommendations and "chicken basics" out there come from the food industry standards on raising production chickens (for either eggs or meat).

Maybe try using plain food to get them to scratch around? Like take out the feeders and maybe in the morning they get “pretend it is scratch” food when they are likely quite hungry, and then the easy feeders show up later?

This is a very good idea, thanks! I'll try it.

If you take a rake or something and re-arrange the bedding without adding scratch, will they do just as much scratching? It might be worth trying.

They might spread it back out, not find enough goodies, and stop looking. Or they might find enough little bugs or whatever and keep scratching anyway.

They do like disturbed bedding, yeah, I can try raking/digging more often. Their bedding is a cold compost of various organic material - wood chips, dry leaves, yard waste, etc. and looks more interesting than a uniform generic bedding, like all sand, or all wood chips. There are things to find, and the chickens spend a good part of the day scratching around and digging craters regardless of whether I've thrown anything new in there. I feel bad that I am unable to let them out, but to compensate, I have put a lot of effort into giving them a large, varied and interesting run to hang out in.

 

[3KillerBs]

I'm thinking of contacting their breeder and asking what his hens of this breed normally weigh when full grown...

This is a very good idea. The breeder probably knows more than a vet who doesn't have specific training on chickens and how the breeds vary does.

Maybe try using plain food to get them to scratch around? Like take out the feeders and maybe in the morning they get “pretend it is scratch” food when they are likely quite hungry, and then the easy feeders show up later?

This is what I was going to suggest.

I rarely buy scratch and can't do this with the crumble I'm currently using, but when I have pellet feed I toss pellets into the bedding to encourage them to turn it. They're perfectly happy to hunt for pellets.

 

[NorthwoodsChick]

Can you make a vertical jungle gym for the run, like there is for indoor cats, but minus the carpet?

 

[K0k0shka]

I rarely buy scratch and can't do this with the crumble I'm currently using, but when I have pellet feed I toss pellets into the bedding to encourage them to turn it. They're perfectly happy to hunt for pellets.

Do you think the crumble would just get lost and encourage pests? I can try to sift out only the larger chunks and use that to scatter in the run, but it still won't hold up as well as pellets...

Can you make a vertical jungle gym for the run, like there is for indoor cats, but minus the carpet?

I already did that. They only use the bottom two levels

 

[NorthwoodsChick]

Do you think the crumble would just get lost and encourage pests? I can try to sift out only the larger chunks and use that to scatter in the run, but it still won't hold up as well as pellets...



I already did that. They only use the bottom two levels

sorry to hear that. (funny tho).

 

[3KillerBs]

Do you think the crumble would just get lost and encourage pests? I can try to sift out only the larger chunks and use that to scatter in the run, but it still won't hold up as well as pellets...

Yes. Or just get lost and decay.

Especially in my Deep Litter system, which is slightly moist.

I don't seek out pellets because I almost always have chicks cycling through, but you might be able to seek out a pelleted form of your preferred feed?

Then you could feed a proportion of their daily allotment by throwing it into the run to be foraged for.

 

[K0k0shka]

Yes. Or just get lost and decay.

Especially in my Deep Litter system, which is slightly moist.

I don't seek out pellets because I almost always have chicks cycling through, but you might be able to seek out a pelleted form of your preferred feed?

Then you could feed a proportion of their daily allotment by throwing it into the run to be foraged for.

I have chicks every year, too, so I prefer crumble. But I can get a small bag of the same feed in pelleted form, to be used as "scratch" exclusively.

 

[ColtHandorf]

You could also consider just delaying putting out the feed in the morning by a bit. Like the “intermittent fasting” fad for humans, but less drastic. It seems like if your hens are “boredom eating,” limiting the amount of time they have the food around would curb that habit a little.

Having English Orpingtons myself, I don't think that would be very effective. They'll just stand around and wait for you to fill the feeder and then sit there and eat until they are full.

I need to fondle their butts

Mine would be furious. lol

I'm thinking of contacting their breeder and asking what his hens of this breed normally weigh when full grown...

That's not a bad idea if they know.

I let them into my fenced-in garden during the off season to look for bugs, that's about all I can do.

I remember your backyard shares a fence with a neighbor. Is the whole backyard not enclosed with a fence? It would make it handy for turning them out for a few hours in the afternoon/evening.

For what it is worth, I don't think "a handful" of scratch if the problem.

 

[K0k0shka]

Mine would be furious. lol

Mine don't mind it at all, they are puppies

I remember your backyard shares a fence with a neighbor. Is the whole backyard not enclosed with a fence? It would make it handy for turning them out for a few hours in the afternoon/evening.

There's a fence only along the back, the sides of the property have a low retaining wall (neighboring yards were raised at some point) and the front is not fenced at all. So there's no way to contain them. And I don't want them in the yard anyway - it's small and my children play there, I don't want them stepping in

So it's complicated...