Questions about what quail can eat.

[Kiki]

I don't mean to hijack this thread but -- I am new to the forum, having a difficult time finding threads on my specific questions without wandering around the forum for hours, and you folks here look to have similar goals as I do, (optimal organic) so here goes:

I am new to quail, have 20 adults. I live overseas where there is no commercially made quail food/mixes. Only chicken mash and wild bird/finch mix. I read the ingredients on the wild bird/finch mix and it wasn't impressive.. Mostly millet. The package did not list protein profile and whether or not the seeds/grains were GMO. I'm trying to keep things as organic as possible.

My question is on mealworms: How much dried mealworms per day per bird? And why are so many people concerned about fat content?? It sounds to me like the same reasoning (misinformation) on fat in the human diet. Healthy fats do not make people fat. Simple carbs do. A high fat diet AND lots of simple carbs are the worst combination for people. I understand that quail are not people...just trying to learn what makes an optimal, home made, organic feeding program for my quail. In the wild, do quail eat a lot of bugs or do they mostly stick to seeds and grains??

I also read that adult quail don't over-eat and are generally good at self-regulating. On the other hand, some are cautioning me to not feed them too many mealworms? So, which is it? Can adult quail self-regulate or not? Or is it just when they're fed mealworms (or BSF's) when they lose their ability to self-regulate?

A tablespoon worth per CHICKEN is almost too much per day. Way too much for a quail.
Have you seen the insides of a bird that eats too many treats with too much fat?

 

[DvorahChanah]

A tablespoon worth per CHICKEN is almost too much per day. Way too much for a quail.
Have you seen the insides of a bird that eats too many treats with too much fat?

I've been looking for the thread where the recommendation of 1 Tbsp per bird was posted. And no, of course I haven't seen the insides of any bird that eats too many treats with too much fat. I've been at this for about 3 weeks. What's your view on fat for people? Just curious what your nutritional paradigm is in general.

 

[Kiki]

I've been looking for the thread where the recommendation of 1 Tbsp per bird was posted. And no, of course I haven't seen the insides of any bird that eats too many treats with too much fat. I've been at this for about 3 weeks. What's your view on fat for people? Just curious what your nutritional paradigm is in general.

Fat isn't healthy. Fat causes health issues. I don't eat a lot of junk food and I do not over feed junk to my animals.
.

 

[Ital]

I don't mean to hijack this thread but -- I am new to the forum, having a difficult time finding threads on my specific questions without wandering around the forum for hours, so here goes:

I am new to quail, have 20 adults. I live overseas where there is no commercially made quail food/mixes. Only chicken mash and wild bird/finch mix. I read the ingredients on the wild bird/finch mix and it wasn't impressive.. Mostly millet. The package did not list protein profile and whether or not the seeds/grains were GMO. I'm trying to keep things as organic as possible.

My question is on mealworms: How much dried mealworms per day per bird? And why are so many people concerned about fat content?? It sounds to me like the same reasoning (misinformation) on fat in the human diet. Healthy fats do not make people fat. Simple carbs do. Fat AND lots of simple carbs are the worst combination for people. I understand that quail are not people...just trying to learn what makes an optimal, home made, organic feeding program for my quail. In the wild, do quail eat a lot of bugs or do they mostly stick to seeds and grains??

I also read that adult quail don't over-eat and are generally good at self-regulating. On the other hand, some are cautioning me to not feed them too many mealworms? So, which is it? Can adult quail self-regulate or not? Or is it just when they're fed mealworms (or BSF's) when they lose their ability to self-regulate?

I’ve heard the same about fat that it’s not such a problem, who knows but fat and sugar combined in the ratio found in doughnuts scores higher on the addiction scale than heroine which I suspect is what causes issues in humans.

I’ve been confidently informed that quail are not very bright and incapable of self regulating their nutritional intake but I’ve been experimenting with mine who are 2 1/2 weeks old and I’ve found the opposite to be true.

On day one they specifically targeted the most easily digestible highest protein ingredients with a complete amino acid profile (cannabis seeds and chlorella) and recoiled, wiping their beaks when trying the garlic which I discovered later is poisonous for them. They’ve displayed many examples of informed discernment since.

The only issue I’ve had is with poppy seeds which I suspect weren’t properly washed of residual opioids, they were targeting them at the expense of other ingredients and squabbling over access.

The problem with adding things to a commercial blend is it throws other things out of balance, so if you add enough insects to correct the protein then less calcium will be available than is required so will need to be supplemented as a free choice option. Fat is also balanced for the blend so adding enough mealworms to correct the protein might push this over what it required.

With enough ingredients offered separately I believe they are more than capable of self regulating their own requirements but mixing mealworms into a blended mix doesn’t provide that opportunity. Mine don’t get any commercial pellets but instead have 26 carefully selected foods offered separately to choose between and appear to be choosing wisely.

I’m measuring the ratio of ingredients they choose to recreate and send off for analysis so I’ll know more when I get the results but Im happy so far with their progress.

If I was in your position wanting to correct an inappropriately formulated blended mix I’d combine mealworms cannabis seeds and chlorella in equal parts which would total around 50% protein and add enough of this to the blend to raise it to 28% as well as offering oyster shell separately.

Or you could separately offer enough ingredients for them to self regulate their own intake, if you search ‘free rein feeding method’ I’ve been documenting my quails progress and you might like some of the other ideas for ingredients to include.

 

[potatoyay]

I don't mean to hijack this thread but -- I am new to the forum, having a difficult time finding threads on my specific questions without wandering around the forum for hours, and you folks here look to have similar goals as I do, (optimal organic) so here goes:

I am new to quail, have 20 adults. I live overseas where there is no commercially made quail food/mixes. Only chicken mash and wild bird/finch mix. I read the ingredients on the wild bird/finch mix and it wasn't impressive.. Mostly millet. The package did not list protein profile and whether or not the seeds/grains were GMO. I'm trying to keep things as organic as possible.

My question is on mealworms: How much dried mealworms per day per bird? And why are so many people concerned about fat content?? It sounds to me like the same reasoning (misinformation) on fat in the human diet. Healthy fats do not make people fat. Simple carbs do. A high fat diet AND lots of simple carbs are the worst combination for people. Maybe that's the rub? Grains/seeds are necessarily high carb, so is that why fats need to be limited?

I understand that quail are not people...just trying to learn what makes an optimal, home made, organic feeding program for my quail and I also know conventional "wisdom" on nutrition is usually way off the mark for people, so possibly also livestock.

In the wild, do quail eat a lot of bugs or do they mostly stick to seeds and grains??

I also read that adult quail don't over-eat and are generally good at self-regulating. On the other hand, some are cautioning me to not feed them too many mealworms? So, which is it? Can adult quail self-regulate or not? Or is it just when they're fed mealworms (or BSF larva) when they lose their ability to self-regulate?

Feeding quail, whether domesticated or wild, involves providing a balanced diet that meets their nutritional needs. Since you're in a location where specific quail mixes are not available, it's important to make informed choices based on the available options. Let's address your questions step by step:

1. Mealworms and Feeding Amount:Dried mealworms can be a valuable protein source for quail. Quail are omnivores, and in the wild, they do consume insects and bugs along with seeds and grains. When feeding dried mealworms, it's generally recommended to offer them as treats or supplements rather than as the primary food source. A guideline for feeding dried mealworms to quail is around 5-10% of their total diet. For 20 adult quail, you could start with a small handful of dried mealworms split between them a few times a week.

2. Concerns About Fat Content:While healthy fats are indeed essential in a balanced diet, the concern with high-fat content in quail feed isn't necessarily about the fats themselves. It's more about ensuring that the overall diet remains balanced. Quail diets that are excessively high in fat can lead to nutritional imbalances and health issues. Seeds and grains can contribute to carb content, but it's more about providing a well-rounded diet that includes protein, vitamins, minerals, and carbohydrates in appropriate proportions.

3. Self-Regulation:Adult quail are generally good at self-regulating their food intake, but this can vary based on the availability of different foods. When presented with a variety of food options, quail tend to self-regulate and choose what they need. However, when provided with high-calorie treats like mealworms, they might consume them excessively because of their palatability, which could potentially lead to imbalanced diets. So, while quail can self-regulate, it's important to offer a variety of foods in appropriate proportions to encourage this behavior.

4. Wild Quail Diet:In the wild, quail consume a variety of foods including seeds, grains, insects, and vegetation. Their diet depends on the available resources in their habitat. Insects and bugs are indeed a part of their natural diet, and they provide essential protein and nutrients.

5. Optimal Homemade Feeding Program:Creating an optimal homemade feeding program involves offering a variety of foods to mimic their natural diet as closely as possible. This might include a mix of grains, seeds, vegetables, and some animal-based protein sources like mealworms. If you can find other sources of protein such as legumes or fishmeal, those can be beneficial too. Try to provide a balanced diet that covers their nutritional needs.

 

[potatoyay]

I've been looking for the thread where the recommendation of 1 Tbsp per bird was posted. And no, of course I haven't seen the insides of any bird that eats too many treats with too much fat. I've been at this for about 3 weeks. What's your view on fat for people? Just curious what your nutritional paradigm is in general.

I don't know what people mean by giving them too many mealworms. I give them mealworms a lot, because they're healthy for the quail, and I haven't had any issues.

 

[Nabiki]

I don't know what people mean by giving them too many mealworms. I give them mealworms a lot, because they're healthy for the quail, and I haven't had any issues.

I'm curious, how old is your oldest quail? I haven't seen the insides of a quail that has been overfed on mealworms, but I have opened up one that was much fatter than my others and there was a lot of fat inside, the liver looked grey, and the meat was an off colour. I didn't eat it.

 

[Ital]

@potatoyay I’ve seen it repeated a lot that they’re too high in fat which causes health issues, the fat content goes up with the size of the worm so I harvest mine when they’re small to reduce the risk.

I’ve also read that fat is good for them so not sure what to believe, mine were getting the choice between mealworms calci worms and crickets but they didn’t like the crickets so I stopped getting them, they don’t like calci worms much either so I probably won’t get more of them either when they run out.

Apparently it’s illegal to give them mealworms or calci worms here in the uk unless you raise them yourself and I don’t like the idea of keeping calci worms so that’s also a factor to consider, I’ve been raising Dubia roaches instead which have a good nutritional profile and they like eating them.

Is that an English/dotted white in your pic? I just ordered some eggs because they were advertised as being calm and friendly towards each other, do you find that with yours?

 

[U_Stormcrow]

I’ve seen it repeated a lot that they’re too high in fat which causes health issues, the fat content goes up with the size of the worm so I harvest mine when they’re small to reduce the risk.

I’ve also read that fat is good for them so not sure what to believe, mine were getting the choice between mealworms calci worms and crickets but they didn’t like the crickets so I stopped getting them, they don’t like calci worms much either so I probably won’t get more of them either when they run out.

Apparently it’s illegal to give them mealworms or calci worms here in the uk unless you raise them yourself and I don’t like the idea of keeping calci worms so that’s also a factor to consider, I’ve been raising Dubia roaches instead which have a good nutritional profile and they like eating them.

Is that an English/dotted white in your pic? I just ordered some eggs because they were advertised as being calm and friendly towards each other, do you find that with yours?

Fat is NOT inherently bad - IF the rest of the diet is balanced calorically for it.

The problem is one when starts with a complete feed balanced for a certain vitamin.mineral.protein intake, then adds a bunch of high fat treat to it - suddenly the whole diet is out of whack and the caloric intake goes up. Poultry put on fat in ways that aren't healthy in excess, even more so than excess fat isn't good for us human types. Fat, of course, they can store for later - plenty of vitamins can't be stored for later, and protein really can't be stored for later either. Given time, that's a recipe for dietary disaster.

 

[Ital]

@U_Stormcrow They’re low in vitamins A, D, E, thiamin, and omega-3 fatty acids so that’s something to consider in addition to harvesting them before they get too big. I mix mine with chlorella, sea buckthorn, and provide nutritional yeast separately to make up for the imbalance.
Also helps if you feed them with a balanced amino acid ratio and carrots, seen a lot of people just raising them on bran.