rabbit color question

[TroyerGal]

so, i got a couple "flemish giant" rabbits from a breeder... i have a fawn female and a white male. recently, the male has developed CALIFORNIAN coloring!!!!!

don't get me wrong, i like calis... but i was expecting a flemish!!! now,i cant sell his babies as purebred

the guy i bought them from told me that he has had some whites come out of greys, and the some whites got cali coloring... whats up with that??? i dont REALLY believe him cuz he had a cali buck in his rabbitry... and my "flemish" is very meaty... not like a normal junior flemish buck!!

any input? and sorry for the bad punctuation... im holding a squirmy baby

and typing with one hand

 

[Bunnylady]

Ah, little people . . . drivin' ya crazy and keepin' ya sane, all at the same time.

the breeder may be telling you the exact truth, and his Cali buck never had an assignation with any of his Flemish does.

"Gray" in the Flemish is called Chinchilla in most other rabbit breeds. Chinchilla, Himalayan (Cali), and Ruby-Eyed White all happen in the same gene series (along with a couple of others). Of the three, REW is the most recessive, Chinchilla the most dominant, with Himi being dominant to REW and recessive to Chin.

This gene family is a little odd, in that just how some of them look depends on what they are paired with. Chin paired with either Himi or REW will still look like a Chin, but it may be a lot lighter than a rabbit that has two copies of the Chin gene (the light one is sometimes called a Ghost Chin).

A 'good' Himi has two copies of the Himi gene; that results in a good, big nose marking and pretty dense color on the points. One copy of Himi and one of REW still looks like a Himi, but the nose marking is smaller and the color is usually less dense. The coloring of a Himi is temperature sensitive; the dark markings develop more when the skin is cool, and fade out when it is warm. Himi babies are born white, and develop the points as they grow. A Himi baby that got chilled in the nest box may develop dark ticking all over its body in the part of its hair that was developing at the time of the chilling, though that grows out as the rabbit matures.

Even in hot weather, you usually would see Himi markings long before a rabbit is old enough to sell. A rabbit that has one copy of Himi and one of REW has smaller markings and develops them later; with your white buck only showing them now, I think that is what is happening in his case. If the breeder has two gray rabbits, one carrying REW and one carrying Himi, it is possible to get white babies that develop points, just like he said. Now, of course, a Flemish shouldn't be carrying Himi, so clearly someone did an outcross somewhere down the line, but it doesn't have to have been this particular breeder. If that white buck winds up with type that is clearly wrong for a Flemish, well, the outcross is bound to be pretty close to him (possibly even a parent) but I'm not calling the guy a liar yet.

Clear as mud?

 

[TroyerGal]

Thank you that is extremely interesting! So, does that mean he's not a purebred?

 

[DutchBunny03]

He may be purebred, he may not be. Unless you have pedigrees to prove it, he will always be considered crossbred, no matter how purebred he might be.

 

[TroyerGal]

Ohhhkay, thank you

 

[TroyerGal]

Ah, little people . . . drivin' ya crazy and keepin' ya sane, all at the same time.

the breeder may be telling you the exact truth, and his Cali buck never had an assignation with any of his Flemish does.

"Gray" in the Flemish is called Chinchilla in most other rabbit breeds. Chinchilla, Himalayan (Cali), and Ruby-Eyed White all happen in the same gene series (along with a couple of others). Of the three, REW is the most recessive, Chinchilla the most dominant, with Himi being dominant to REW and recessive to Chin.

This gene family is a little odd, in that just how some of them look depends on what they are paired with. Chin paired with either Himi or REW will still look like a Chin, but it may be a lot lighter than a rabbit that has two copies of the Chin gene (the light one is sometimes called a Ghost Chin).

A 'good' Himi has two copies of the Himi gene; that results in a good, big nose marking and pretty dense color on the points. One copy of Himi and one of REW still looks like a Himi, but the nose marking is smaller and the color is usually less dense. The coloring of a Himi is temperature sensitive; the dark markings develop more when the skin is cool, and fade out when it is warm. Himi babies are born white, and develop the points as they grow. A Himi baby that got chilled in the nest box may develop dark ticking all over its body in the part of its hair that was developing at the time of the chilling, though that grows out as the rabbit matures.

Even in hot weather, you usually would see Himi markings long before a rabbit is old enough to sell. A rabbit that has one copy of Himi and one of REW has smaller markings and develops them later; with your white buck only showing them now, I think that is what is happening in his case. If the breeder has two gray rabbits, one carrying REW and one carrying Himi, it is possible to get white babies that develop points, just like he said. Now, of course, a Flemish shouldn't be carrying Himi, so clearly someone did an outcross somewhere down the line, but it doesn't have to have been this particular breeder. If that white buck winds up with type that is clearly wrong for a Flemish, well, the outcross is bound to be pretty close to him (possibly even a parent) but I'm not calling the guy a liar yet.

Clear as mud?

Yeah, your mud was very clear.

and extremely fascinating!! love what you said about "little people"