Rabbit raid?

[CYGChickies]

I have a minor in Art and my specialty was Photography both film and digital manipulation. With as much pattern and texture as the dirty cages had it would be easy to blend in the edges of a rabbit clipped from another photo. I'm no expert or anything but it would be much easier than placing a rabbit against a solid background.

CYG

 

[rebelcowboysnb]

I pulled that first photo an zoomed down to the pixel level an if that is photo shopped it was done by someone better than anyone I know. I am sure that rabbit is in that cage.

 

[CYGChickies]

That's out then, next theory. Well would they even go through the trouble to befowl a cage just to get her in trouble? How did her rabbit look so clean in a cage so horrendous if it was living there? How did they stay so dirty with 4H kids in the barn caring for them so often? Either she--and her friends--are lying or this rescue group is lying. I suppose it would be easy to take a picture of a real neglected rabbit and cage and just claim it was hers. Can they prove those rabbits were hers? The fact that she said she discerned male and female on the cage and I see none of that in the pics also make me suspicious of the photos. Any old dark barn can look like any other old dark barn; the focus and flash was on the rabbit and the wire. Plus I buy my cage tags and I know so do a lot of other rabbitries from the same website so it's not hard to find a cage that could be someone else's. I feel like I need to start signing my age tags at the bottom now haha.

CYG

 

[sommrluv]

Not that I really desire to return to this thread...but..

On Debe's radio show appearance she confirmed the cage pictures were hers. She said she was proud of her barn and didn't think the waste was bad. That that level of waste is normal for a livestock operation.

She also said that not all of the cages looked like that, but many did, and that the sheriff only released the worst of the worst.



Even the pictures she released afterward look horrid to me, so whatever. The staining on the cages from urine build up and the feces was more than a one time issue.


My point is, if you are trying to defend her, you're not doing yourself any favors in creating some big conspiracy when she's already admitted those are her cages. The radio show transcripts are still up.

 

[Okie Amazon]

As I said before... even IF her rabbits were living in dirty cages, LAW ENFORCEMENT should have received a proper warrant to LOOK, then xxx amount of time should have been given to rectify the situation followed by a re-inspection BY GOVERNMENT OFFICIALS!!!!!! NEVER should these HR people been allowed on her property at any time!!!!! That's like the police raiding my house and then asking my neighbors or anyone driving down the street if they would like to come in and look around!!!

 

[sommrluv]

Oh, this is so pointless. Just pointless.

 

[MaryHammond]

Hi. I just wanted to weigh in on this thread since we are so close to the court date. My name is Mary, I raise rabbits and soon I hope Buff Orpingtons, but in any case I also run Show Rabbit Protection Society that is working closely with Debe Bell.

The probable cause for the seach and seizure, other than an anonymous caller, was the animal control believed Debe to be an R-1 residential zone. She tried to explain that she is indeed zoned for A2 allowing unlimited amounts of rabbits, but he disbelieved her and took the rabbits. If she had indeed been in an R-1 zone, she would have been guilty of too many animals, hoarding, and illegal slaughter.
But the woman owns an actual farm, the zoning commissioner has confirmed it, therefore everything they found on the farm was legal.


Where those her cages? Yes.

Where the rabbits kept in a wooden shed in the pics? No. Zoning commissioner visited and has stated the wooden shed is simply a storage addition to the barn itself. The rabbits were in the barn.

The pics show four dirty cages out of 193. The rest of the barn was clean. Not an unusual situation in any large sized rabbitry.

Why are there no pics showing clean cages? Debe was disallowed from taking pics of the removal. Which is of course a violation of her first amendment rights. She had every right to photograph law enforcement on her property. And law enforcement's job is to back their case with evidence so they are not required to photograph clean cages.

Were the pics staged?

I have not heard that, from Debe or anyone else. However, animal control officers ARE frequently trained to do just that and they do not use photoshop. LOL. What they do is dirty up water dishes and photo them, move the water dish to another cage and dirty it even more then photo them.
Or they will move piles of poop around from spot to spot. Why? Because their job is to prove their case and frequently animal control or humane society workers will tamper with evidence. Very common. In some humane society training groups, the participants are trained to do so.

Did that happen in Debe's case? I don't know. She has not said so, no.

Debe has a hearing on 9/21.

Thanks.

 

[mom2jedi]

Quote:
May I ask why? It seems from your posts that you are absolutely convinced this woman has done wrong and are not willing to consider the idea that what was done to her was not right. Even if some of her cages were in that condition (which I also find not acceptable but I do not own that many rabbits) not all of them were. Why is it unreasonable to assume that law enforcement would stack the deck in their favor especially if they are doing it without a warrant in the first place? They did not have a warrant when they came onto her property. That only arrived later. It still falls under the illegal search and seizure category.

Quite a few people have expressed concerns about the condition of her cages here and while I agree with the fact that those are way too dirty, the question isn't just about the condition of a few cages. The rabbits in the photos in the really dirty cages are too clean in my opinion which makes me wonder about their validity. Why is it impossible to suspend judgement? I find it highly reasonable that the House Rabbit society would move rabbits around before taking pictures. What if those cages were empty because they needed to be cleaned (waiting for the 4-H kids that were scheduled to come in that weekend) and the HRS simply moved rabbits from other cages just to take the photos?

I do not trust HRS nor do I trust AC on their word. It is true that they do catch people doing wrong and that is their job, but does that make it right to violate someone's rights? The fact that law enforcement did not allow her to take her own photographs is highly suspicious to me. If it is proved that her rabbits were being mistreated I have no problem admitting I was wrong. I am not defending her however, I am simply waiting because I believe it is wrong to judge someone in the court of public opinion. How many times has the media withheld information or misrepresented something? Just because someone is an officer of the law does not mean they are infallible - they are still human and can make mistakes through lack of knowledge or be dishonest to forward their own agenda.

 

[CYGChickies]

Quote:
If she was on the radio, how do we know precisely which pictures exactly she was defending? Has she seen all of these?

Theories and opinions have no bearing on her case whatsoever. I doubt the judge is reading and taking our opinions to heart so "doing myself favors" or "defending her" has nothing to do with my speculations. I'm not defending or condemning I am simply stating IF they fabricated evidence and violated rights, then they need to be reprimanded.

The fact still remains that they did not allow her to take any photographs of her own. If "many" of her cages were so awful, why stop her from photographing? Why violate her rights if the case was so open/shut and obvious? Also, what of the "illegal" search?

When I first saw the pictures I said myself she needs to clean up, but the rabbit looked insanely clean to be in that cage. My rabbits could NEVER look that good if they'd actually lived in a cage like that. My rabbits' faces and paws turn neon colors when we give them wooden chew toys and stay that way for a while! I can't imagine living in feces and urine so extensive that the rabbit wouldn't be discolored or even look raggedy or matted.

Maybe I'm dead wrong and if I am I'll admit it, but I'm not going to cry "guilty" until there are a few explainations about these rights violations and inconsistencies. Also, if the case is thrown out then they will be able to return legally in the future and catch her if neglect continues. If she cleans up her act to avoid further altercations, then the problem is solved isn't it? If speculation and "pointless" discussion upset you, then you certainly do not have to engage in the conversation. There is no reason to tell us to stop discussing and speculating.

CYG

 

[punk-a-doodle]

I would not suspect photoshop. As another poster said, groups are much more likely to stage/alter evidence than photoshop something. It is much easier to simply take photos from another raid or muck up dishes, and people who can do a really, really convincing photoshopped bit are not exactly easy to come by. Remember, cryptozoologists photoshop, various animal groups tend to have a problem even getting their website links to work and usually just manipulate the information rather than the images themselves. XD

I agree that the HRS really had no business being a part of this raid, especially during the phases where evidence was being collected. I remember as a kid, someone's horses were removed from them as they were in very, very poor condition, but it was not until after they were removed from the property that our local humane society had anything to do with them. I am curious to know who was in charge of appointing the various vets to this scene. If it was the HRS, I'd find quite a bit of fault with that too.

Basically, if the photos are accurate depictions from her barn, yeah, those are awful conditions, and even a livestock angora herd should not be that matted. Regardless, there are some questions that need to be answered about how the raid was conducted. If they are not accurate, there are questions that need to be answered about how the raid was conducted...and the groups involved need to be seriously looked at as well as procedures for these types of situations.

The radio show transcripts are still up.

Maybe you already did, but do you mind linking to them again? As others have said, I'd be curious if she was responding to these photos in particular as many clips and photos of healthy looking rabbits appeared beforehand.​