Raising Jersey Bottle Calf?

[chooks4life]

It could be cocci, that's probably a good bet. Also, green grass and milk are not a good combination in lambs and kids, so I'd guess they're not the best combo in calves either. I made my lamb wait half an hour before giving milk if she'd been eating green grass, and after milk another half an hour before allowing her to eat green grass. Otherwise she'd bloat instantly, every time. But she did have a lot of other issues. On a sheep forum I was on recently this problem was common with other lambs who didn't have any troubled history like mine, though, so it seems common.

She kept eating at a certain patch which would always give her sewerage-smelling burps and poops, so I checked it out more thoroughly and it was sewerage runoff from an old place nearby. I had to stop her eating here and fed her raw garlic to clean up her gut, and native raspberry leaves to stop the scouring, and a lot of other things including rosemary and raw honey, apple cider vinegar and activated charcoal. Not all at once of course but over the weeks.

If your calf has been able to get at grass containing human gastrointestinal bacteria/fauna/flora, or has come into contact with human saliva or gastrointestinal fauna/flora etc at any point, that can also cause this stinking scouring. Even something as simple as the calf licking your hand after you've touched your mouth can do it. Also, various other things carry bacteria which can kill an infant ruminant --- grapes for example are (in some places in Australia, anyway) sprayed with raw sewerage. If you have a dog and it licks the calf's face or milk, put a stop to that. I assume you've been disinfecting the feed gear carefully, but best to double check anyway. Cocci could have been picked up from anywhere, but it might not even be cocci. Was the calf vaccinated or medicated recently? If there's mucous discharge from eyes and nose it could be the common cold's equivalent, which is also often accompanied by scouring. Copper deficiency can cause scouring too but I doubt a formula fed calf would have that.

I am a learner practitioner of natural remedies (not to be confused with an expert, lol) so if you're using pharmaceutical meds, some of the other folks who've replied here would be best able to help you. I am not experienced in those areas. The bit of natural info I have readily at hand may not be relevant to you, but I'll give it anyway. Please evaluate carefully before following any advice here as I have not treated a scouring calf. I used various things to treat my lamb from scouring which lasted many months, from 1 week old when I got her through to at least 4 months old; her scouring was caused by various issues and I don't know what's wrong with your calf.

According to an author whose advice I have found helpful and lifesaving with other animals, the treatment for scouring calves is the same as that for sheep, but trebled in dose. She believed the speediest cure for scouring calves was often to let them suck from a healthy cow, and this has been proven, but is obviously not an option for you. Some of her advice, if not all, will also be useless to someone who is not prepared with the items used in advance.

From Juliette de Bairacli Levy's book "The Complete Herbal Handbook for Farm and Stable":
(She wrote a few treatments and since she didn't utilize a decent editor they're jumbled). But it's a general guideline anyway, might be of use now or in the future. Treatment usually started with a laxative drench to remove any foul matter from the intestines; in this case she wrote one to two ounces of Epsom salts (still used by a lot of shepherds for scouring lambs in the UK); she dissolved them in half a pint brew of dill seed water, but plain water would also be fine. Senna pods also work, boiled in water. If you've got dill and want to try that, then it's one small handful boiled for five minutes in one pint of water and then brewed for two hours (simmered, I guess). This treatment was for sheep but also applied to calves if the dosage was trebled, supposedly.

She gave this to the animal then fasted them for a day but I wouldn't fast a baby for a whole day, I'd at least give honey water, or even a night time feed of normal milk. All-raw would be best. Warm is best too; if you've switched suddenly from cold to warm or warm to cold, that can also cause scouring or bloating. Having two feeds too close to one another can also cause these issues.

Another entry under scouring was this one: black strap molasses (as in, does not have white sugar, but is pure molasses unlike most molasses these days) mixed with the milk, and slippery elm bark powder mixed with that. She doesn't state the dosage for slippery elm, but I'd guess three tablespoons or so. The formulas we have for lambs and kids over here have molasses mixed into them anyway. In all cases of scour she'd put the animal in a dry warm place.

That's all the info I have to offer, but the scouring in your calf could be caused by many different things, so I hope you find out for sure what it is, and also hit upon the right treatment. Best wishes.

 

[chooks4life]

I will just add that when a creature is in fever force feeding it can be fatal. Some are stupid enough to eat when they're in fever but if he's smart enough to take a little fast, let him, especially since he does not seem dehydrated. His body needs to utilize its resources to fight whatever is wrong, not digest food. In calves in particular I have heard of force feeding being the cause of many fatalities when they have elevated temperatures. Too many people panic when an animal stops eating and even if it's only been a day, they start force feeding, which is often exactly what the animal did not need. This can kill them. Best wishes and I hope he perks up.

 

[cassie]

I will just add that when a creature is in fever force feeding it can be fatal. Some are stupid enough to eat when they're in fever but if he's smart enough to take a little fast, let him, especially since he does not seem dehydrated. His body needs to utilize its resources to fight whatever is wrong, not digest food. In calves in particular I have heard of force feeding being the cause of many fatalities when they have elevated temperatures. Too many people panic when an animal stops eating and even if it's only been a day, they start force feeding, which is often exactly what the animal did not need. This can kill them. Best wishes and I hope he perks up.

I raised drop calves for many years. I have no idea what you meant about a fever and feeding being fatal. I can tell you the fastest killer for calves is dehydration. If you can get fluids into them, chances are they will be OK. The vet would sometimes have me take them off milk for a feeding or two and just feed electroyltes. And sometimes put an egg or two in the electrolytes for energy. Look on the internet. You can find some good advice for dealing with scours there. Look for pages from veterinary colleges. You ought to be able to find something. Try googling calf scours and see what comes up. Although one time I put in an internet search on calf scours and ended up with a vegan web page. I have no idea how or why that happened.

 

[Angie Poo]

I've given him the homemade stuff right now, and we'll have the stor bought stuff soon. But he doesn't want it, should we tube feed him the electrolytes and other stuff he won't eat? (We'll of course get some experienced help if we have to tube feed).

I don't think the goats milk would cause any problems, whole milk is so much better than replacer.

He's been averaging 101.9 so his temp isn't that high... We'll call a vet (though none of them a very knowledgeable with livestock) and see what they say, it certainly can't hurt. Thank you for your help

Based on my own personal experience I would tube feed the calf electrolytes if it has stopping eating. Instructions of how much should be on the package. I would also add a couple blurps of pepto bismol to it. Not a good way to measure but it works. I would also withhold giving it any milk for 12-24 hours or until he wants to eat on his own again. Depending on what the scours are caused from antibiotics can be detrimental. Here is a good link to an article on calf scours and treatment.
http://www.iowabeefcenter.org/Beef Cattle Handbook/Scours.pdf

 

[chooks4life]

Quote: What I meant by that is exactly what I said: force feeding during fever can be fatal.

I didn't say to withhold all liquids, but normal feed is often harmful if forcefed to an animal that's fasting while it has a fever. Angie Poo put it better though:
Quote: Giving simple liquids is not the same thing as giving nutrient dense liquids, aka normal feeding for a mammalian infant, which can be fatal while it's in the grip of fever.

Water, even fortified with electrolytes and some mild nutrients, is safe in fever whereas milk can be fatal.

Hope all goes well. Best wishes to all.

 

[DairyGoatz]

It could be cocci, that's probably a good bet. Also, green grass and milk are not a good combination in lambs and kids, so I'd guess they're not the best combo in calves either. I made my lamb wait half an hour before giving milk if she'd been eating green grass, and after milk another half an hour before allowing her to eat green grass. Otherwise she'd bloat instantly, every time. But she did have a lot of other issues. On a sheep forum I was on recently this problem was common with other lambs who didn't have any troubled history like mine, though, so it seems common.

She kept eating at a certain patch which would always give her sewerage-smelling burps and poops, so I checked it out more thoroughly and it was sewerage runoff from an old place nearby. I had to stop her eating here and fed her raw garlic to clean up her gut, and native raspberry leaves to stop the scouring, and a lot of other things including rosemary and raw honey, apple cider vinegar and activated charcoal. Not all at once of course but over the weeks.

If your calf has been able to get at grass containing human gastrointestinal bacteria/fauna/flora, or has come into contact with human saliva or gastrointestinal fauna/flora etc at any point, that can also cause this stinking scouring. Even something as simple as the calf licking your hand after you've touched your mouth can do it. Also, various other things carry bacteria which can kill an infant ruminant --- grapes for example are (in some places in Australia, anyway) sprayed with raw sewerage. If you have a dog and it licks the calf's face or milk, put a stop to that. I assume you've been disinfecting the feed gear carefully, but best to double check anyway. Cocci could have been picked up from anywhere, but it might not even be cocci. Was the calf vaccinated or medicated recently? If there's mucous discharge from eyes and nose it could be the common cold's equivalent, which is also often accompanied by scouring. Copper deficiency can cause scouring too but I doubt a formula fed calf would have that. 

I am a learner practitioner of natural remedies (not to be confused with an expert, lol) so if you're using pharmaceutical meds, some of the other folks who've replied here would be best able to help you. I am not experienced in those areas. The bit of natural info I have readily at hand may not be relevant to you, but I'll give it anyway. Please evaluate carefully before following any advice here as I have not treated a scouring calf. I used various things to treat my lamb from scouring which lasted many months, from 1 week old when I got her through to at least 4 months old; her scouring was caused by various issues and I don't know what's wrong with your calf.

According to an author whose advice I have found helpful and lifesaving with other animals, the treatment for scouring calves is the same as that for sheep, but trebled in dose. She believed the speediest cure for scouring calves was often to let them suck from a healthy cow, and this has been proven, but is obviously not an option for you. Some of her advice, if not all, will also be useless to someone who is not prepared with the items used in advance. 

From Juliette de Bairacli Levy's book "The Complete Herbal Handbook for Farm and Stable":
(She wrote a few treatments and since she didn't utilize a decent editor they're jumbled). But it's a general guideline anyway, might be of use now or in the future. Treatment usually started with a laxative drench to remove any foul matter from the intestines; in this case she wrote one to two ounces of Epsom salts (still used by a lot of shepherds for scouring lambs in the UK); she dissolved them in half a pint brew of dill seed water, but plain water would also be fine. Senna pods also work, boiled in water. If you've got dill and want to try that, then it's one small handful boiled for five minutes in one pint of water and then brewed for two hours (simmered, I guess). This treatment was for sheep but also applied to calves if the dosage was trebled, supposedly.

She gave this to the animal then fasted them for a day but I wouldn't fast a baby for a whole day, I'd at least give honey water, or even a night time feed of normal milk. All-raw would be best. Warm is best too; if you've switched suddenly from cold to warm or warm to cold, that can also cause scouring or bloating. Having two feeds too close to one another can also cause these issues.

Another entry under scouring was this one: black strap molasses (as in, does not have white sugar, but is pure molasses unlike most molasses these days) mixed with the milk, and slippery elm bark powder mixed with that. She doesn't state the dosage for slippery elm, but I'd guess three tablespoons or so. The formulas we have for lambs and kids over here have molasses mixed into them anyway. In all cases of scour she'd put the animal in a dry warm place.  

That's all the info I have to offer, but the scouring in your calf could be caused by many different things, so I hope you find out for sure what it is, and also hit upon the right treatment. Best wishes.

Thank you for all of this. He's doing much better today, running around and kicking up his heels. His temperature is also going down and he's eating readily on his own again (we cut his feedings in half so he's being pushy for more food.)...

I doubt he could have eaten enough grass to cause any sort of upset, and it's highly unlikely that he got anywhere with sewage contaminated grass. Although our dog does think his a mama cow and cleans the calf off so we'll stop him doing that... I always give him warm milk so that shouldn't be the cause. I thought blackstrap molasses acted as a laxative? Is this to purge the system of any toxins?.

Did you ever find out what was causing your lamb's scours for so long? Several different things?... I'll be looking into a natural remedy book spon as it seems better than most stuff on the market.

Thank you you very much for all your help

 

[DairyGoatz]

Based on my own personal experience I would tube feed the calf electrolytes if it has stopping eating. Instructions of how much should be on the package. I would also add a couple blurps of pepto bismol to it. Not a good way to measure but it works. I would also withhold giving it any milk for 12-24 hours or until he wants to eat on his own again. Depending on what the scours are caused from antibiotics can be detrimental. Here is a good link to an article on calf scours and treatment. 
http://www.iowabeefcenter.org/Beef Cattle Handbook/Scours.pdf

Thank you for the PDF it looks helpful... how long should I give him pepto bismol? Until he's fully recovered?... Also, just checking; it's not normal to hear liquids sloshing around in his stomach several hours after feeding is it?

 

[cassie]

I used to feed pepto just until the stool firmed up. How is he? Is he hungry? Alert? I can tell you something that might be helpful for his tummy, particularly after being on antibiotics. That is some live acidopholis culture. You can get it at the health food store. I used to get it in the health food section of the supermarket. If nothing else you can add some plain yogurt with live cultures to his milk. Can't hurt. Might help. It will help replenish the good bacteria in his gut.

 

[DairyGoatz]

I used to feed pepto just until the stool firmed up. How is he?  Is he hungry?  Alert? I can tell you something that might be helpful for his tummy, particularly after being on antibiotics.  That is some live acidopholis culture. You can get it at the health food store.  I used to get it in the health food section of the supermarket.  If nothing else you can add some plain yogurt with live cultures to his milk.  Can't hurt.  Might help.  It will help replenish the good bacteria in his gut.

I haven't really seen any stool today, did we over do it with the antidiarrheal medications?. He's hungry and alert and acting normal. I've never heard of acidopholis before, we'll look for it when we go to down... we'll give him homemade yogurt at his next feeding, thank you.

 

[chooks4life]

Quote:
Thank you for all of this. He's doing much better today, running around and kicking up his heels. His temperature is also going down and he's eating readily on his own again (we cut his feedings in half so he's being pushy for more food.)...

I doubt he could have eaten enough grass to cause any sort of upset, and it's highly unlikely that he got anywhere with sewage contaminated grass. Although our dog does think his a mama cow and cleans the calf off so we'll stop him doing that... I always give him warm milk so that shouldn't be the cause. I thought blackstrap molasses acted as a laxative? Is this to purge the system of any toxins?.

Did you ever find out what was causing your lamb's scours for so long? Several different things?... I'll be looking into a natural remedy book spon as it seems better than most stuff on the market.

Thank you you very much for all your help
You're welcome and I'm glad to hear he's doing better.

Blackstrap molasses would only be laxative if fed in excess. What is defined as 'excess' of course varies based on multiple factors. Only about a small amount per feed, like a quarter of a teaspoon it seemed, or less, was mixed in the formula I bought for my lamb. It said on the packet that the molasses helped their guts get ready for eating solids and helps them digest them, which corresponds to old information as well as newer info on molasses as a feed additive for ruminants.

As for my lamb's scours, she got it initially from her previous owner not taking any hygiene precautions with her bottle or feed. So all the common bacteria present in a kitchen made its way into her, which is bad enough, but worse in this case. This man did not adhere to even the simplest rules of cleanliness, so the cloths had been used on his bathroom as well as the kitchen, and never rinsed let alone properly washed for six months at a time; he did not believe in disinfecting things. He'd chop raw meats on the wooden benches and not wash them nor the dishes or cloths, so every surface was contaminated to a terrible degree. Because he did not practice any hygiene with her feeding instruments, and used the same cloths for various things, bad bacteria from his fridge, kitchen, and toilet cross contaminated and colonized her very quickly and from two weeks old to about four months she had nonstop scours and flatulence and also had pulpy kidney.

He was going through a bit of dementia/psychosis and kept his herd in an unhealthy state in one tiny badly overgrazed paddock. Her mother rejected her at birth, but later bonded with her for a few days, but then the lamb went down with over 8 female adult paralysis ticks on her, and her mother forgot about her before she regained her feet. So at least initially she had colostrum. While she was paralyzed, in the middle of winter, she was left in an open shed lying in her own urine and feces. I was renting on the property, with her owner being my landlord, and started checking in on her to turn her over to clear her lungs, dry her, treat her, etc, but because he was trying to force a confrontation between myself and him, I didn't get involved overly much.

He had raised orphan lambs successfully before but had used formula, but this time was just being a cruel person to try to provoke a reaction out of me. He would use an old dirty plastic bottle (instead of an easy to sterilize glass one he had which he’d used before with other lambs) and make her up plain milk from the store, extremely diluted, and heated in the microwave. Being two weeks old by that point, she was ravenous and would gorge when twice a day he'd give her a feed. So in desperately trying to get enough nutrients and hydration she would drink until her gut was distended like a football.

Being a Damara lamb she was born only about the size of a half grown cat, so at two weeks old she was still tiny. He'd wait until it was midday for her first feed and let her try to drink two litres in one go, whereas Damara lambs feed up to 10 or so times a day from their mothers, in very short feeding spells, in very small amounts. They are born very tiny and almost double size every week for their first few months. She'd grind her teeth and grunt and whine and sometimes cry out from the pain of her swollen and sick gut. As a general reference, by the time a Damara lamb is ready for weaning, at a few months old, they’re supposed to be drinking around 1.5 litres a day and weigh anywhere around 25 kilos; at two weeks old and weighing a maximum of four kilos, he had her drinking up to two litres in a sitting, twice a day. It was grotesque. Throughout all this she was too paralyzed to even lift her head.

After two weeks she had recovered enough from the paralysis to walk but he'd left her sitting too much, so her front knees had locked in a bent position. At this point I moved out and he gave her to me as I drove away, expecting her to die and be fed to my dogs. I set her up a little sling and massaged her knees, and in 48 hours she went from being unable to walk to galloping around with her front legs bent at right angles. Over the next week this fixed completely all by itself. But the bacteria she'd picked up from his bad hygiene took far longer to eradicate and she nearly died many times. She was twitchy and had constant nightmares and glazed eyes, as animals with toxic guts do, and her poops and farts stank like death. I'm not making a joke there, some bacteria which causes rotting has a smell to it which frightens animals and any human that recognizes it.

One of the first things I did was buy her proper formula and this made a massive difference instantly. They have some powerful probiotic formulas available which colonized her gut so strongly that the established hostile bacteria were almost entirely evicted overnight, though some small troublesome levels of it lingered on for months.

Since then she’s done quite well but has reinfected a few times with bad bacteria because she’s been living in suburbia with a lot of little kids about, plus dogs, and horrible town water. Kids and dogs are incredible disease vectors. The opportunities are endless, lol… But she gets over her temporary infections quickly and without scouring and has grown into a large lamb, and is still growing. For an example of how bad our town water is, we’ve been flooded off the mainland a few times and during these events diseases spread via water everywhere, and the reservior of town water was overflowed into by the sewerage treatment plant which was right next to it. The taps ran brown for a while. Horrible, to be honest. It’s giving me a crash course in what herbs and foodstuffs disinfect the gut, that’s for sure.


There have been more issues with her but her first few weeks set the trend and that’s how her scours started. After getting the formula she stopped her visible decline and began to grow rapidly but the scours persisted for a while. Anyway, best wishes with your calf.