Recessive wheaten question

[saladin]

I didn't mean to sound argumentative; I was really curious.

Cubalaya wheaten females have a slate undercolor. yeah, I know about all the wheaten particulars (head darker, black in wings and tail), but there are also peculiarities (sp?) that I've seen:

Cubalaya hens have a black stripping in the hackle where it flows over the body. Some also have the golden color as does your hen.

Duckwing Cubalayas are wheaten with 'tear-drops of the Virgin' in the hackle. I'll see if I can find a picture to post.

 

[saladin]

Duckwing Cubalaya in the foreground: Wheaten Cubalaya in the background

 

[saladin]

I've also worked alot with Wheaten in Asil and Shamo: that Wheaten reacts differently than does the Cubalaya Wheaten.

 

[nicalandia]

Quote:
Quote:
Ilia I dare not question the Big guys...... Back yard breeding experience can only get you so far... you and I would have to hatch hundreds of Jungle Fowl F1s then in submit our papers to the scientific world.... not to mention pros like Tim would love to have blood samples of our work...

 

[gallorojo]

Saladin, ( and others!) -

I am mostly interested in sorting out these color questions not because I am terribly concerned with color, or with making colors. At this point, I am not even trying to breed for exact colors or perfect colors. What I do want to do is figure out to the best of my ability exactly what is going on in my birds genetically, because this may give me overall insights into the breed in general. Every little piece of the puzzle I think helps me somewhat. I have been really trying to get this whole wheaten thing thing sorted out, it may never happen. My birds seem to sometimes act as dominant wheaten, and, sometimes as recessive wheaten-so, who knows? Could be 2 answers there. Based on my results this season, I think if I crossed the right birds, I could get stippled/partridge birds out of mine , from wheaten x wheaten crosses. Something like that could be a clue as to where the line originated, and how it was bred/created. Or not!!!!

I enjoy thinking about this sort of thing, even if it may never go anywhere but conjecture. It gives me something constructive to think about while mowing the lawn..

Ilia-I would call that hen you pictured wheaten-not because I want to argue, but, I think my point is that we all call things by different names. You may be correct that it's not wheaten as called for in some breed or another's standard,sure. It's a "version "of wheaten.

Saladin- I think from what I can see of the Cubas, we have several different versions of wheaten out there that we all just call wheaten. I call them all wheaten, but, I can see there is something odd going on there. I figure it's the blend of many strains , plus the gamefowl background that throws the odd colors/versions from time to time. Later this season I'll post pics of some of the variation I got this season.

Good luck to our friend Carr on the Hyderabads!! If I had them my head might explode trying to figure them out!!! LOL!!

 

[saladin]

gallo,

You might be on to something as it concerns the wheatens from different strains. I think I've mentioned that one of the old fellows use to show stippled hens with his Cubans because he didn't care for the wheaten! lol.

From everything I've read on the genetics of Fowl (which is actually enough to fill a library: it's just not my thing); I'm convinced of the following:

1. Very little has been done with Wheaten.
2. What has been done isn't all that accurate.
3. Oriental Wheaten would blow the mind of a geneticist.

I'm also completely convinced that the Oriental Fanciers know tons more than the geneticist/their research-writting about Oriental Wheaten. Further, the Oriental Fanciers know very little about Cubalaya Wheaten.

 

[gallorojo]

Quote:
I agree with that statement 100%!!!!!

Yeah, wheaten as we know it in the orientals seems to be a very different thing indeed from the other versions of it out there..

Saladin, one of the reasons I was playing around with some of these crosses was because you, Dave K., and Jim Zook had all mentioned there being stippled/partridge Cubas out there at one time. That got me thinking A LOT, so I set up some test matings. I'm certain that my gold/silvers are definitely NOT the same as the other BB red wheatens, at least the ones I have, based on chick down, feathering rate, based on crosses, and their results, and simply based on looking at them-not quite the same!! Who knows what else will pop up next season?

 

[saladin]

NOW DON'T GO BLAMING ME!!! HAHAHA Blame Zook and Dave K, but NOT ME.

For you to think about: I've only had stippled hens in the Duckwings: never in anything else.

 

[gallorojo]

EXACTLY RIGHT!!

The duckwings is the oddity-that is where I'm thinking and working.

 

[tadkerson]

Saladin and Illia,

I do not understand what you are calling duckwing?

Illia,

The wheaten bird in your #8 post is columbian restricted and also carries mahogany. Both of these genes will effect the amount of stippling found in a bird.



Saladin,

In your picture of the cubalaya (#12), they all look like they are recessive wheaten. What is difference in a wheaten and a duckwing female in cubalaya?


I think part of the problem is the terminology used in cubalaya and asian game birds is different than that used by researchers. The terminology used by researchers does not match the genetics of game birds. This would make things very confusing if one reads the literature and tries to apply it to game fowl.


An example is wheaten in malay, aseels and shamo.

There is no male counter part to the female wheaten in the standard while there is a male and female black breasted red. The black breasted red phenotype is nothing like the black breasted red phenotype of other chickens ( exception the Araucana). A key characteristic found in black breasted red (wild type at the E locus) is a salmon colored breast;which is not present in black breasted red malay, aseels or shamo. From the description in the standard- these birds are not wild type at the E locus. They are wheaten at the E locus; both the wheaten and black breasted red.



Tim

Edited with additional information.