Recessive wheaten question

[saladin]

Quote:
Correct....

Columbian Wyandottes are eb(Brown) at the base and Columbian on a sex link Silver Background...

Though this indeed may be true; I'm not convinced. Why? If so, then every strain of Cubalaya in existence in the US has a columbian restricter because all our birds carry black in the hackle, wings and tail. And, I just don't think that is the case. Why? Because, all I have to do is mate a BBR (Wheaten) cock to a Red Pyle (Cinnamon Pyle) hen and I'll get Red Pyles with no black whatsoever in them. I can also do it the other way Red Pyle (Cinnamon Pyle) cock to a BBR (Wheaten) hen and I'll also get Red Pyles with no Black. Do I get all Red Pyles out of these matings? I honestly don't remember if I do or not.

 

[tadkerson]

The columbian gene when homozygous will remove black pigment from the body of a bird that is wheaten. It makes no difference if the bird is silver or gold. The columbian gene is a restrictor because it restricts black pigment; the black pigment is restricted to the wings, tail and hackles of a bird. If the female carries the gold allele, then the normal wheaten (cinnamon) color is changed to a ginger or an orangeish red color. The color can very some between birds. It would be about the same color as a new hampshire or a ginger old english game.


If you have females that have very little or no hackle black and are a ginger color ( replaced cinnamon) they are columbian restricted. In females it takes two genes to do a good job. The female would also throw heterozygous males that had the ginger color on their breast.

A columbian restricted silver wheaten would be almost white in color- with the exception of some black in the tail and wings. The amount of hackle black can vary from none to a small amount.

Rhode island red and new hampshire both carry wheaten at the E locus. The rhode island red carry other genes that give them their characteristic color. A spanish breed that is wheaten and columbian restricted is the prat or catalana.

What is the down color of you smutty wheaten birds- do they have any black back markings or are they regular wheaten in color.


Tim

 

[gallorojo]

I certainly don't think they all do have the Columbian in them, maybe none do, or, maybe a few, surely not all. I 've thought some about some of them being possibly mixed, as in part wheaten, part wildtype, or part partridge, etc. However, if that was common, most breeders would report then a fair amount of non-wheatens in their hatches, this does not happen often to my knowledge, very seldom if at all for most. I'm mostly interested in the birds like Cubalaya and you, Saladin, have posted with the golden hackles, the females that is. They remind me a lot of the pictured bird, but, it's not exact, and it could easily be unrelated. I've yet to get a golden hackle female myself, but, maybe this will be my year. If you crossed a female with Columbian to a male BB red that would get you an orange/buff/golden colored breast in the male offspring. That would be an easy enough test for Columbian. I've never had any like that, so, my hens don't have columbian. But, I've never had on of those golden hackle ones, either!

I do realize though that Saladin and Cubalaya have hens like that, and if they were columbian, you guys should have some very unusual cockerels running around!!! So, I'll guess probably not Columbian in the cubas, but, could be in Ilia's bird.

 

[saladin]

Smut wheaten pullets as chicks are solid white down like other wheatens. You can't tell if they will have smut feathers until they get their mature feathers. I use these hens to get a good solid black breast in the cocks. It is easy to get brown/red in the breast feathers of the Cubalaya cockbirds. The smut wheaten hens solve that problem.

 

[nicalandia]

Quote:
Correct... Ilia's hen in the Pic is a gold Columbian Restricted hen.... the birds Saladin is posting are not...

they resemble solid colored columbian restricted because of Wheaten, wheaten does this to females except that instead of the orangy color of columbian restricted birds have(check Ilia's hen pic) Saladin's bird show the Natural soft salmon/cinamon color.... but thats for females not roosters....

 

[nicalandia]

Quote:
sounds like Melanotic(Ml) on a Wheaten(eWh) Background is at work here... which is very nice since Melanotic has not been documented very often on eWheaten birds...

 

[tadkerson]

Quote:
Correct....

Columbian Wyandottes are eb(Brown) at the base and Columbian on a sex link Silver Background...

Though this indeed may be true; I'm not convinced. Why? If so, then every strain of Cubalaya in existence in the US has a columbian restricter because all our birds carry black in the hackle, wings and tail. And, I just don't think that is the case. Why? Because, all I have to do is mate a BBR (Wheaten) cock to a Red Pyle (Cinnamon Pyle) hen and I'll get Red Pyles with no black whatsoever in them. I can also do it the other way Red Pyle (Cinnamon Pyle) cock to a BBR (Wheaten) hen and I'll also get Red Pyles with no Black. Do I get all Red Pyles out of these matings? I honestly don't remember if I do or not.

I do not believe cubalaya carry the columbian gene- the males would not have black breasts if they carried the columbian gene.

Black in the hackles, wings and tail are a product of the E locus allele- not the columbian gene.


Your red pyles carry a gene called dominant white- it is the dominant white gene that prevents the addition of black pigment to the tail, wings and hackles. The dominant white gene does not effect the production of pheomelanine (red pigment). So the female bird will be a form cinnamon where they are normally cinnamon. The males will be orange red ( that is if they are normally that color) in the pyle zone.

If your cross a homozygous dominant white bird ( red pyle) with a wheaten bird the dominant white bird will give one dominant white gene to each of the offspring; therefore you get red pyle offspring.

Red pyles do not have to be homozygous for dominant white- they can carry a domiant white allele and a non-white ( normal color)allele and be heterozygous. If you crossed a heterozygous red pyle with a wheaten bird you will get red pyles and wheaten offspring.


When you crossed in the blue gene with your whites that was an old trick used by breeders of white leghorns and white cornish cross. Dominant white can be a leaky gene allowing for some black flecks to show up in the birds. The blue gene helps clean up the flecks producing a nice and clean white bird.

Did you use an andalusian (type) blue bird to introduce the blue gene or did the blue gene come from a blue wheaten.

The white bird in your pictures with the out stretched wings looks to be heterozygous dominant white. I worked with dominant white for 6 years and the color of your bird was typical of my heterozygous females. I produced some red pyle (type) males during that time.


Tim

 

[cubakid]

Hmm. i didnt know that Dominant White was present outside Leghorns. My White cubalayas hatch out white and yellow. The adults usually have slight red cast to their shoulders(females and males both) and some have black patterning on their frontal upper neck. I beleive they were originally a Rec. White crossed with Wheaten to improve type, but mostly white chicks. this seems like the works of Rec. White. and when we bred a White hen with a Wheaten cock we got Wheaten (slight spangling in "teenage"[3-4mos.] birds), clear Wheatens and Red pyles with bleached hackles that apperard white with red lacing and had black specks all over. In my oppinion "Duckwing" in orientals is any non red-based duckwing familied bird, gold duckwings for the most part, but a generalization to all forms including blue variations. My Blue variant birds get darker laces and i get the splash variations as well.

Zach

 

[nicalandia]

Quote:
Sounds like Heterozygous Domiant white

 

[Chris09]

Quote:
Some Gamefowl will carry Dominant White.

Chris