Red Laced Cornish X and project talk (pics p. 8)

[Arielle]

I'm sure I will find out when I read, but did I see that they are fed a high(er) protein pellet than normally? Does anyone use freeranging? How do these birds do free ranging?? ( I don't have fencing 360 degrees yet.

 

[kfacres]

Like in all animals- protein is what directly leads to muscle- therefore in order to attain higher than normal degree of muscling, additional protein is required. I feed my babies a 24%, the growers a 22%, and my breeders a 20% ration. I know of other places that feeder higher percentages than that. They will survive with free ranging, but they likely will not thrive.

My setup includes a 3 section coop, and an outside grower pen. One pen, which usually is what I call my general egg layers- free ranges each day. The others do not get let out- but since my coop is only 3 sided and open to the front- they still get plenty of natural sunlight. My general egg layer pen contains my backup breeders, a couple of Cornish cross blue egg layers, and 4 silkie incubators. Those birds really do not get hatched from- and so I leave them on a commercial layer feed.

I do not free range any young birds, as it's my goal to get them to the end point, whether retained, or butchered- as fast as I can... and so I'd rather them not waste time and energy running around.

The birds that I do let free range, are extremely active birds in terms of doing what 'normal' chickens are supposed to do. I wish they would venture a little further from the coop towards where the other livestock do the majority of their grain consumption-- but I guess that just means plenty of food morsels are to be found nearer the coop.

The thing about free ranging these birds- the really good high quality, SOP bred Cornish- are really not athletic enough to justify free ranging--- even if they were cheap enough to risk the investment....

 

[Arielle]

GOod information.

The senerio I was contemplating was based on combining freeranging and high protein pellets. I thought of this because my speckled sussex free range all day: Sun up to sun down these days. THey have layer pellet in the the coop at all times. They travel a bit, more than may other birds, (but not as far as I would like). On the other hand , the cornish cross is a sitting duck and perhaps that is also what a heritage cornish is also, a breed designed to be "kept" in a penned set up.

I"m sure I will find what I am looking for.

 

[kfacres]

GOod information.

The senerio I was contemplating was based on combining freeranging and high protein pellets. I thought of this because my speckled sussex free range all day: Sun up to sun down these days. THey have layer pellet in the the coop at all times. They travel a bit, more than may other birds, (but not as far as I would like). On the other hand , the cornish cross is a sitting duck and perhaps that is also what a heritage cornish is also, a breed designed to be "kept" in a penned set up.

I"m sure I will find what I am looking for.

I don't think that's true- Real time Cornish, have been selected to be extreme in their build, as most are interpretating the SOP to be such. In all reality- they are a poor choice for a backyard flock due to their lack of natural breeding ability first and foremost.

Now, with that said, there are still some 'functional' types out there-- but even at my place, where my darks are closest to SOP, but longer legged- I notice fertilty issues compared to the colored birds. I'm not selecting anything to be towards the SOP, and I imagine that over the generations it will show, and I'll have to say I no longer raise 'my style of cornish'.. but in the meantime- I'll continue.

If you do happen to find a set of quality cornish to buy- chances are you'll pay a pretty penny for them. I know that I've paid quite a bit for the birds I have; but it's nothing to what true SOP cornish have been priced to me for-- when I have found someone wanting to sell me some. That's the next key you'll have to overcome.

 

[Arielle]

Last year I talked to Fowlman about the cornish. He breeds them. He seemed to be concerned that real cornish were not for everyone. I appreciated his candor and his description of them was far more accurate than anything else I had read.

I just walked back from the turkey pens. the SS followed me all the way up thru the woods and all the way back. We stopped for a minute where the hay piles up and I helped them find some worms. Protein.

I still need to go back to the beginning to read thru. I love the coloring on this cornish and almost bought a few via a hatchery just to get the feel for them. Maybe I should still do that. IDK.

 

[kfacres]

Last year I talked to Fowlman about the cornish. He breeds them. He seemed to be concerned that real cornish were not for everyone. I appreciated his candor and his description of them was far more accurate than anything else I had read.


I AGREE

I just walked back from the turkey pens. the SS followed me all the way up thru the woods and all the way back. We stopped for a minute where the hay piles up and I helped them find some worms. Protein.

PROTEIN AS A SNACK. WHEN FORMULATING RATIONS, YOU NEED TO FIGURE IT BASED OFF OF DAILY INTAKE.. NOT MIGHT EAT 10 WORMS TODAY, MIGHT ONLY EAT 5 TOMMORROW. AS SOMEONE STRICT IN TERMS OF RATION FORMULATING- THEN I FIND THAT FAR MORE PEOPLE OVERLOOK THIS MOST IMPORTANT PART OF ANY KIND OF LIVESTOCK PRODUCTION.

 

[chickened]

Like in all animals- protein is what directly leads to muscle- therefore in order to attain higher than normal degree of muscling, additional protein is required. I feed my babies a 24%, the growers a 22%, and my breeders a 20% ration. I know of other places that feeder higher percentages than that. They will survive with free ranging, but they likely will not thrive.

My setup includes a 3 section coop, and an outside grower pen. One pen, which usually is what I call my general egg layers- free ranges each day. The others do not get let out- but since my coop is only 3 sided and open to the front- they still get plenty of natural sunlight. My general egg layer pen contains my backup breeders, a couple of Cornish cross blue egg layers, and 4 silkie incubators. Those birds really do not get hatched from- and so I leave them on a commercial layer feed.

I do not free range any young birds, as it's my goal to get them to the end point, whether retained, or butchered- as fast as I can... and so I'd rather them not waste time and energy running around.

The birds that I do let free range, are extremely active birds in terms of doing what 'normal' chickens are supposed to do. I wish they would venture a little further from the coop towards where the other livestock do the majority of their grain consumption-- but I guess that just means plenty of food morsels are to be found nearer the coop.

The thing about free ranging these birds- the really good high quality, SOP bred Cornish- are really not athletic enough to justify free ranging--- even if they were cheap enough to risk the investment....

Too much protein can cause birds to mature faster at an earlier age and when sexual maturity starts the slow in growth. Another better way to get larger birds is to separate cockerals from pullets and they will grow longer and larger due to later sexual maturity.

 

[kfacres]

Too much protein can cause birds to mature faster at an earlier age and when sexual maturity starts the slow in growth. Another better way to get larger birds is to separate cockerals from pullets and they will grow longer and larger due to later sexual maturity.

Excess protein in the diet is excreted out, most commonly in the urine... In the case of poultry- maybe that's why some are 'watery-er' than others?

The only thing feeding excess protein does-- is add up in the pocketbook.

Excess fat intake in the diet- will speed up maturity pattern though. It's a proven fact that fat animals do not grow. Once an animal's body lays the appropriate layer of fat down, the body shuts down and says I'm done growing. Thus, the same as physical maturity. Same end result.

 

[Arielle]

Quote: You have me thinking here--

Perhaps the layering on of fat occurs because of the slowing of the growth ( bone and muscle) so more fat is made from the extra calories.

In sheep, sexual maturity is usually hit at 100#, regardless of the breed.

In humans, we have an obesity problem in our kids that is significant at a very early age. BY 3-5 grade, and as the grades in crease the % that are obese increases. ( Verysad.) Yet our kids are getting taller with each generatation, and sexually maturing at an earlier age too.

Soooo, back to chickens. Perhaps it is the reverse, I'm done growing, put on the fat. Or it is independent . . . ..

 

[Arielle]

I love this meat project and I love the innovation and creativity.

However my goal was to find a bird that could maximize the land I have and raise meat in an economical fashion because feed prices have doubled in the last few years.

If all meat birds ( cornish x, the red laced cornish x, the rangers) all need extra protein to meet the growth mark, I wonder if I am looking at the wrong bird for my goals. I appreciate all this wonderful information as it helps me find my way toward a meat bird suitable for my homestead.

I love that you keep me thinking and thank you for sharing!!!!!