Red Laced Cornish X and project talk (pics p. 8)

[kfacres]

I think the reasoning behind me getting solid white chicks from my bluer BLR cock, and the WLR project hens-- is that one, or more of the hens must be carrying recessive white from somewhere. Whether that is coming from their hatchery sourced mothers, or their dark sire. Obviously, the BLR cock *MIGHT* carry recessive white-- and is appearing to me to in fact carry it.

I think obviously, one of my three solid white chicks also carries dominate white from it's WLR mother-- as it's got black spots-- nearly identical to the "caligo" that SteveH keeps posting pictures of his birds-- of which he thinks carry 2 copies of recessive white, and one of dominate.

 

[Cedarknob]

If you are talking about me, I've been Cedarknob since buying a new laptop and upgraded my internet service, and for security purposes keep my new address and contact information off the board now, though have told several people here that I trust what my full contact information is.

I refer to the cross variety cockerels, from the WC purchased from Aviengems at Crossroads, as 'calicos' but they have one copy of recessive white from him, one copy of dominant white from him. When bred to my dark Cornish hens, some chicks were hatched white with black leakage, others hatched black. The white cockerels feather off-white with black leakage and then develop mahogany bleed later, the pullets stay off-white with heavy black ticking. The WC produces 100% solid white chicks from recessive white hens; and further test breeding to a typical 'wild partridge' colored EE determined he carries only copy for dominant white, as proved by her chicks also hatching either black or leaky white. When I started using him, I was unaware that many Cornish breeders have introduced dominant white by crossing whites and white laced reds. I would have preferred him to not have a copy of dominant white, but it is what it is. Since I'm getting some solid blacks from him over my DC, I get an opportunity to breed pure Cornish that are a color not yet approved in large fowl Cornish; plus they each carry one copy of recessive white and can produce white chicks that are pure recessive white also.

Some have called my 'calico' cockerels jubilee. I don't because they do not have the right color genetics to be jubilee................. jubilee Cornish are an accepted color pattern outside of the U.S., and it is the same pattern as the double laced darks except that all the black is replaced by dominant white. To show a Jubilee at an APA event, it would have to be entered as AOV [all other varieties] because only darks, white laced reds, buffs, and whites are accepted varieties in the large fowl Cornish. I can show my black Cornish as 'AOV - Black'. [They're an approved variety in the bantams.]

I know that the hatchery bred WLRs that I used to have never threw white chicks from a white Ameraucana nor from my first DCs, and my current DC's parents came from the same breeder and none have ever produced white chicks except the off-whites from the WC that I hatched starting this spring............................ I certainly would have known if they had and been happily posting about it. Instead I was posting about my surprise at getting leaky whites and sold blacks in the first to hatch from them when bred to the WC.

 

[OSUman]

Oh, so the solid black bird is due to the recessive white being covered up by the black gene, that had enough melanizers to cover any leakages. For some reason I thought he hatched out of your DC line, this makes more sense. If you cross that bird back to the whites, it will further dilute the Dark color genes.

I was posting about my surprise at getting leaky whites and sold blacks in the first to hatch from them when bred to the WC.

 

[Cedarknob]

Oh, so the solid black bird is due to the recessive white being covered up by the black gene, that had enough melanizers to cover any leakages. For some reason I thought he hatched out of your DC line, this makes more sense. If you cross that bird back to the whites, it will further dilute the Dark color genes.

Both the blacks and leaky whites are from my DC females, but sired by my WC. The only black that I now have in the older pen of juveniles does have a gene for recessive white, but one gene of recessive white will be hidden under any color. Two genes of recessive white gives you a white bird that only rarely shows leakage of any color. Two copies of dominant white usually prevents black leakage, but does not work as well on red, so ideally a dominant white bird is a solid black one with two copies of dominant white I have no way of knowing for sure what all has been bred into the different breeder's lines trying to get better colored WLRs, Whites, and Buffs in the U.S.; the first to be imported were the Darks which came from England as Indian Games. I was hoping that the WC that I bought was recessive white hiding the color of a Dark Cornish, but figured it was probable that the lacing pattern would be off. I was too inexperienced to know that even what few current breeders exist are still mixing varieties and some Whites carry dominant white from crosses to WLRs. .

When anyone mixes in another breed, that extreme Cornish type is lost for several generations, as there's just not another breed in existence that has the extreme wide, heart shaped body along with those wide spaced, heavy boned legs where the shanks are nearly perfectly round instead of being more flat on the sides. Even kept pure, the heavy bone and type is difficult to breed as well some of the old time Cornish breeders did, when they could win a championship over all breeds.

 

[kfacres]

If you are talking about me, I've been Cedarknob since buying a new laptop and upgraded my internet service, and for security purposes keep my new address and contact information off the board now, though have told several people here that I trust what my full contact information is.

I refer to the cross variety cockerels, from the WC purchased from Aviengems at Crossroads, as 'calicos' but they have one copy of recessive white from him, one copy of dominant white from him. When bred to my dark Cornish hens, some chicks were hatched white with black leakage, others hatched black. The white cockerels feather off-white with black leakage and then develop mahogany bleed later, the pullets stay off-white with heavy black ticking. The WC produces 100% solid white chicks from recessive white hens; and further test breeding to a typical 'wild partridge' colored EE determined he carries only copy for dominant white, as proved by her chicks also hatching either black or leaky white. When I started using him, I was unaware that many Cornish breeders have introduced dominant white by crossing whites and white laced reds. I would have preferred him to not have a copy of dominant white, but it is what it is. Since I'm getting some solid blacks from him over my DC, I get an opportunity to breed pure Cornish that are a color not yet approved in large fowl Cornish; plus they each carry one copy of recessive white and can produce white chicks that are pure recessive white also.

Some have called my 'calico' cockerels jubilee. I don't because they do not have the right color genetics to be jubilee................. jubilee Cornish are an accepted color pattern outside of the U.S., and it is the same pattern as the double laced darks except that all the black is replaced by dominant white. To show a Jubilee at an APA event, it would have to be entered as AOV [all other varieties] because only darks, white laced reds, buffs, and whites are accepted varieties in the large fowl Cornish. I can show my black Cornish as 'AOV - Black'. [They're an approved variety in the bantams.]

I know that the hatchery bred WLRs that I used to have never threw white chicks from a white Ameraucana nor from my first DCs, and my current DC's parents came from the same breeder and none have ever produced white chicks except the off-whites from the WC that I hatched starting this spring............................ I certainly would have known if they had and been happily posting about it. Instead I was posting about my surprise at getting leaky whites and sold blacks in the first to hatch from them when bred to the WC.

Ya, I'm talking about you... and Yes, your more 'in depth' description of the "calico" birds-- is exactly like I described them in my original comments.

Any way you look at it. the original four WLR pullets I bought from you- produced 2 solid white, and one black splotched chick when mated to the bluer BLR cock-- also the one I bought from you. Ironically, this same BLR cock produced one single solid bleached white chick whem experiementally mated to a blue silkie incubator.

I have no other males on the place, and my only non- cornish females are Silkie for being natural incubators, since the Black Ameraucanas died this summer in the heat. The last of the Ameraucana eggs hatched about 2 weeks before the solid white ones did, and they were also covered by the BLR cornish cock.

Which btw: brings me to a new project I'm going to try out once moved. I have a pair of full sibling hatch mate- blue, with dark lacing F1 BLR Cornish/ Ameraucana chicks to interbreed... I'm not sure where I'm headed with it, but they are an awesome light blue laced with a darker blue color...

 

[galanie]

Ok wait, Cedarknob is SteveH? cool! I wondered where he'd gone! (I lurk more than post here any more)

 

[Cedarknob]

Quote: I was pointing out that I know my leaky whites carry one only copy of recessive white and one of dominant white, passed to them from my WC, None my DCs or the WLRs carried recessive white.

If I'm mistaken about you no longer having the purebred DC and some of the original hatchery blood WLRs, you can easily prove it by taking a picture of all of them in their pen today and showing them to everyone. My best guess is that the white chicks came from one of Big Medicine's birds bred to a daughter of one of them, as I know that the darker one is penned with them now, and that the only purebred Cornish you had has not been seen for a long while.

 

[big medicine]

Guys, not sure of all the figuring on the possible genetics of the spotted white birds. I had a couple white chicks this year showing some black spotting out of the BLR cornish project pen. I do have two white hens that Dad did not hatch here that were supposed to be pure Strait blood. But when breed to colored birds not carrying recessive white produced all colored chicks. So I am pretty sure I have no dominant white at play here. Where the spots come from I don't know. I wondered maybe if it could be a splash blue bird being covered by recessive white ? Now both you guys have birds from this blood, is it a possibility that could be the case there as well ? Or could be they just look similiar for different reasons.

I will look to see if I have any pictures of the spotted birds, since gone, on the computer. I aim to get some pictures, and maybe weights, today, on some of the young whites which don't figure in my future breeding plans.

 

[kfacres]

I was pointing out that I know my leaky whites carry one only copy of recessive white and one of dominant white, passed to them from my WC, None my DCs or the WLRs carried recessive white.

If I'm mistaken about you no longer having the purebred DC and some of the original hatchery blood WLRs, you can easily prove it by taking a picture of all of them in their pen today and showing them to everyone. My best guess is that the white chicks came from one of Big Medicine's birds bred to a daughter of one of them, as I know that the darker one is penned with them now, and that the only purebred Cornish you had has not been seen for a long while.

I bought the Big Med bird, and the WLR from you last fall- about Sept.

They started laying in Jan.

Even if I had hatched out their very first egg- they could have been hatched Feb 1--- 7 months later get the first egg from that offspring-- first egg comes Sept 1....

Yet my white chicks are almost full grown, and the smallest one is hatched in July...

Not possible, sorry try again.

 

[kfacres]

Guys, not sure of all the figuring on the possible genetics of the spotted white birds. I had a couple white chicks this year showing some black spotting out of the BLR cornish project pen. I do have two white hens that Dad did not hatch here that were supposed to be pure Strait blood. But when breed to colored birds not carrying recessive white produced all colored chicks. So I am pretty sure I have no dominant white at play here. Where the spots come from I don't know. I wondered maybe if it could be a splash blue bird being covered by recessive white ? Now both you guys have birds from this blood, is it a possibility that could be the case there as well ? Or could be they just look similiar for different reasons.

I will look to see if I have any pictures of the spotted birds, since gone, on the computer. I aim to get some pictures, and maybe weights, today, on some of the young whites which don't figure in my future breeding plans.

According to what SteveH, or Cedarknob says--- his birds are not coming from the lines of which are of your genetics...

My birds though- are coming from your lines.

I enjoy them, it's speeding my process up one generation-- as I was going to take the daughters of the two cocks from you- and breed them back to their sire to pick out which cock would carry white. I've yet to hatch any eggs from the non-blue cock- but I'm confident that the blue one does carry white now...

Hopefully, breed him back to these whites, or these whites to each other-- and see what happens... I will breed my BLR offspring of the blue cock back to their sire.

My goal is to make whites obviously.