Regular feed to organic change ?

[Sally PB]

@U_Stormcrow, I'm looking at the label for my Kalmbach 20% starter/grower, and would like your opinion on these nutrient amounts, please.

Lysine 1.10%
Methionine .45%
Fat 3.50%

I have really appreciated all the knowledge shared in this thread. BYC rocks.

 

[GC-Raptor]

Do yours squat for no reason? my dont. My one girl only does it sometimes if I put my hand over her. She like, freezes and squats. Have yours become more chatty at all?

No, my Pullets don't squat for no reason, but my hens squat if I move towards them.

My Pullets have not been more chatty than usual, so far.
If yours are, expect an egg soon.
GC

 

[U_Stormcrow]

@U_Stormcrow, I'm looking at the label for my Kalmbach 20% starter/grower, and would like your opinion on these nutrient amounts, please.

Lysine 1.10%
Methionine .45%
Fat 3.50%

I have really appreciated all the knowledge shared in this thread. BYC rocks.

Lysine is excellent for essentially all breeds at all life stages. Could go a little higher for meaties in the first few weeks of life, but after week 4, 1.1% is optimum for everyone (and lets be honest, in our home frocks, a few extra grams per bird isn't something any of us will notice).

Methionine I'd rather see closer to 0.6%, but plant sources of methionine - good plant sources, anyways - are few and far between. SO rare, in fact, that synthetic methionine is actually allowed (or used to be) in "Organic" feed - but unlike synthetic lysine, the process to produce it is much more difficult (and expensive). You comment on a bunch of my posts, I know you follow me, and have seen my frequent mention of Fenugreek? Fenugreek is one of the best plant sources of Methionine out there (the seeds, particularly) - which is why I keep trying to get some to grow. Meaties need more than in production layers, because of their faster growth rates, but 0.45 is the minimum recommend for laying hens.

UGA, UF, NRCS/USDA and others all put the recommended fat content at 4.0%, again higher for meaties (starting at 6%, dropping to 5%) for optimum growth in the short term, but I personally consider 3.5% a better target number, since my birds free range and occasionally get a bit of scratch or other higher fat treats from me - like eggs with cracked shells.

 

[Sally PB]

Ok, now I have to find a source for fenugreek seeds to grow in my garden. Do you know anyone who sells it online?

Thanks for your input. Always appreciated.

 

[Sally PB]

Baker Creek (rareseeds.com) has fenugreek! I get a lot of my garden seeds from them. 75 seeds for $2.50. They are definitely in my future!

 

[U_Stormcrow]

@SallyPB continuing, here's the amino acid profile of the top three ingredients in the Kalmbach organic 20 Starter/Grower.

According to this, Corn (Maize), the #1 ingredient, is also the best bulk source of Methionine, at 2.1 while soybean meal (Ingredient #2) and wheat middlins (#3) come in at 1.5 and 1.4, respectively.

I don't like using this source - or more accurately, I don't like *showing* this source, because its deceptive. An exercise in telling a true thing in a way that can lead the unwary to a false conclusion. How so?

Its expressed in g/16g N. That the same as expressing it in g/100g protein, or percent OF protein. Corn is an {ahem} source of protein. Usually given as around 9%. So the Methionine content is 2.1% multiplied by 9%, or about 0.189% of the corn content, by weight. Dehulled soybean meal is around 48% protein. Same calculation, 48% multiplied by 1.5% equals about 0.72% methionine as percentage of soy meal - its one of the reasons I'm so fond of seeing soy on the ingredient list. Its 3.5 times more methionine dense, by weight, than dried corn. Wheat is only about 12-14% protein (soft or hard) typically. About 0.196% methionine by weight.

Kalmbach is mostly corn, not a huge amount of soy meal. They know its inadequate. If you keep looking thru the ingredients in their organic feed, you will see this. "DL-Methionine". Synthetic Methionine. The amount they can add, and still claim organic status, is limited by statute. Many want it eliminated entirely - I hope they don't understand the consequences of their preferred policy preferences - that's mere ignorance. If they do, and want it anyways, that's a moral evil in the view of many.

So, Fenugreek.
Its about 340 mg per 100g served. .34% On par with carraway seed, garlic powder, just a little behind mustard seed, and a little ahead of fennel seed. Poppy seed is better still, around 500mg per. For comparison, most fresh herbs are in the 40s and 50s. Sesame seeds are around 880, but have all that fat. Safflower around 600, and again, tons of fat. Vegetable sources? Forget it. Freeze dry green pepper to get just 180 mg/. No other common veggie gets close.

But I can grow it. I'm trying mustards, too.


Anyhow, I hope this shows, any one can do what I'm doing, just takes some effort (and time - lots of time).

 

[U_Stormcrow]

Baker Creek (rareseeds.com) has fenugreek! I get a lot of my garden seeds from them. 75 seeds for $2.50. They are definitely in my future!

DON'T!!

Anthony's. Organic Fenugreek. Amazon. They sprout, I've done it many times now - birds keep eating the tops, now that they've discovered them. $12 for a 2# bag. Trust me, MUCH cheaper than 75 for $2.50.

 

[My Very First 6 Chickens]

No, my Pullets don't, but my hens squat if my hand moves towards them.

My Pullets have not been more chatty than usual, so far.
If yours are, expect an egg soon.
GC

One of the girls was so loud, i had to go outside and check on her. I dont think mine are gonna use their nesting boxes tho. They have shown zero interest, and have started digging into the bedding on the coop floor and have made little nest looking things. I almost am tempted to put a 5 gallon bucket on its side and fill that will hay. I cant say i mind because the next boxes, when i move the hay and look around the edges, i see small black bugs. This concerns me but maybe they are under the hemp in the coop as well? Was thinking of sprinkling some DE in the nesting boxes under the hay. What do you think?

 

[rosemarythyme]

I cant say i mind because the next boxes, when i move the hay and look around the edges, i see small black bugs. This concerns me but maybe they are under the hemp in the coop as well? Was thinking of sprinkling some DE in the nesting boxes under the hay. What do you think?

See if you can get photos of the black bugs?

Doesn't sound like mites if they're clearly visible and not red in color, but I would want to know what they are.

Personally I wouldn't bother eradicating something as long as it's not harmful, but figuring out what it is is the first step. Like I get black aphids for about a month each year that kinda rain into the run from the tree above, so those aren't a concern, but they just look yucky.

 

[3KillerBs]

Was thinking of sprinkling some DE in the nesting boxes under the hay.

Find out what it is before you do anything in order to know if it's chicken pest or chicken feed.

Then use permethrin if it's pest.. DE is a respiratory irritant which had very limited effectiveness as a pesticide.