Resource guarding keeps derailing my flocks. Can't crack the code!

[thecatumbrella]

You have one of the Omlet coops that just have a floor with slats to kind of "roost" on, rather than an actual raised roost bar, right? Some people add vertical dividers along roosts when birds aren't getting along - I'm sure you could bodge something similar in your coop. I'd be tempted to try just shoving some cardboard in to make a wall from one side/back out to the centre, folded into as many layers as it needed to make it rigid enough to stay wedged between the floor and the ceiling. Or is it one with a divider and a separate nest area already?

Exactly. This is the inside of my coop. I do like the divider idea, but I'm not positive how to pull it off in such a tight space. We don't have time to build a coop before winter, but I've been looking at a larger prefab that might allow that option. It would also have vertical roosts, rather than just something lying on the floor.

Younger chickens or new additions will often learn to go and roost later on, once the others are starting to sleep and it's getting too dark to see enough to bother the latecomers.

This is part of the problem. My bottom bird has made it a habit to go to bed 30 minutes before everyone else. More seasoned chicken keepers (like yourself) would probably let them work it out, but I'm a huge softie that finds it hard to watch (so stop watching, right?). Also, I should clarify that it's not actual feather picking. More of an escalation on being "asked to leave".

Is the coop door open all night if it's in a secure run, or do you close the coop itself too?

It's open very late because of the tight space. I want to give her a chance to escape and reset once it's darker, but she's pretty stubborn about her geriatric bedtime.

I'm definitely torn between trying to make a few changes and just giving up. Winter is bearing down on us, and I want to give them time to get settled in a rehome before the temps drop. The group will be splitting up. Both are going to homes with a rooster to help mediate disputes.

I appreciate all the different ideas. Even if I don't use them now, it will be more tools in my toolbox should we decide to try again with another flock. Admittedly, I have no idea what that flock would look like. The Pekins were supposed to be a slam dunk in the docile department. Ha!

 

[thecatumbrella]

For anyone interested, this video demonstrates the sort of FOMO + pecking order behavior that drove Hornet to madness. This is inside of their basement coop (story for another thread, aka Bad Luck Bantams). I've since added an additional feed/water station. The dynamics in the run play out similarly, with Hornet "forgetting" she can eat from a different feeder and becoming frustrated when she can't share with Poppy.

Now, here's the result of Hornet becoming more protective around food. She's dragged her misplaced animosity into the coop at night. Keep in mind, the 3 of them had been settled in this position for FIVE MINUTES before Hornet started searching around in the dark for Clover.

To complicate the drama further, the two of them are now buddy-buddy snuggling on a roost bar in the run this afternoon. Now if only they could just sleep outside when it's -20F, I'd be golden!

 

[rosemarythyme]

For anyone interested, this video demonstrates the sort of FOMO + pecking order behavior that drove Hornet to madness. This is inside of their basement coop (story for another thread, aka Bad Luck Bantams). I've since added an additional feed/water station. The dynamics in the run play out similarly, with Hornet "forgetting" she can eat from a different feeder and becoming frustrated when she can't share with Poppy.

Now, here's the result of Hornet becoming more protective around food. She's dragged her misplaced animosity into the coop at night. Keep in mind, the 3 of them had been settled in this position for FIVE MINUTES before Hornet started searching around in the dark for Clover.

Maybe it's just me but I don't see any real issue in the first video. As you've noted chickens tend to want whatever another chicken wants.

The roost situation is a bit tougher but as you're aware the 2 roosts are simply too close together, so even jumping to another roost doesn't put enough space between the bully and bullied. Regardless it's still "normal" to hear birds getting knocked off the roost and having to reposition themselves before the flock can finally settle down to sleep.

Maybe the videos don't show it well since you mention not being able to capture the worst moments but maybe you're expecting a level of peaceful coexistence that simply doesn't exist for the average flock of chickens? Like I'd say my flock gets along most of the time but every so often it breaks out into Fight Club (with combatants in the middle of a circle, being egged on by the others), or now that many of my birds are molting tensions are high and the amount of chasing and feather yanking has increased a lot. It's annoying but it's not permanent.

 

[thecatumbrella]

Maybe the videos don't show it well since you mention not being able to capture the worst moments but maybe you're expecting a level of peaceful coexistence that simply doesn't exist for the average flock of chickens?

I think this is what I struggle with the most. I know peace is possible, but it seems to be a rarity past point of lay. I need a setup to accommodate that. Not sure I can create it fast enough. Poor Clover deserves to go to bed without getting hazed by her brooder-mate. I’m still befuddled at how they turn on a dime!

 

[Mother of Chaos]

I think this is what I struggle with the most. I know peace is possible, but it seems to be a rarity past point of lay. I need a setup to accommodate that. Not sure I can create it fast enough. Poor Clover deserves to go to bed without getting hazed by her brooder-mate. I’m still befuddled at how they turn on a dime!

I might have let some of the daytime videos go as just "chickens gonna chicken", but the one where Hornet out of the blue during the night leaned over a flockmate to hard-peck Clover, and then chased her down for another peck - that's a very different level.

 

[thecatumbrella]

I might have let some of the daytime videos go as just "chickens gonna chicken", but the one where Hornet out of the blue during the night leaned over a flockmate to hard-peck Clover, and then chased her down for another peck - that's a very different level.

Right?? This was my husband’s complaint. Just go to bed dude! Why are you leaning over Poppy to take cheap shots in the dark…

They did so well in the run today that we gave them another chance to go to bed in the Omlet. She did the exact same thing. I know you’re a Nestera user. Do you ever see this from yours?

 

[Mother of Chaos]

Right?? This was my husband’s complaint. Just go to bed dude! Why are you leaning over Poppy to take cheap shots in the dark…

They did so well in the run today that we gave them another chance to go to bed in the Omlet. She did the exact same thing. I know you’re a Nestera user. Do you ever see this from yours?

No, I haven't, but I haven't had the level of flock drama that you have had. They are basically one flock now, with the laying Bigs higher on the hierarchy, and the Littles (not yet laying) lower down, but still happily grazing together.

It has currently settled out to where they initially start out with the Littles in the Nestera, and the Bigs outside on the 2x4 perches, but often at some point in the night when it's cold or rainy, the Bigs move inside.

I'm so, so fortunate that mine are not particularly cray-cray. The Bigs all came from the same hatching group, bought at 7-ish weeks, and the Littles also were raised together, one bought at 6 weeks and one at 8 (going for specific breeds.) I know that there isn't any magic in being raised together, but it does seem to have worked out for us.

 

[Altairsky]

Exactly. This is the inside of my coop. I do like the divider idea, but I'm not positive how to pull it off in such a tight space. We don't have time to build a coop before winter, but I've been looking at a larger prefab that might allow that option. It would also have vertical roosts, rather than just something lying on the floor.

View attachment 4220161

Oh... That explains everything. My chickens would kill each other if they had to sleep so close together. A quick fix to this problem would be to move the second roost bar to the opposite side of the nest entrance so the bullied hen can move and roost out of reach of the bully.
Pecking at roosting time is normal, especially the lower ranking hens do this. I have a couple of hens that during the night will blindly peck all around them to make space. It's normal.

 

[thecatumbrella]

Oh... That explains everything. My chickens would kill each other if they had to sleep so close together. A quick fix to this problem would be to move the second roost bar to the opposite side of the nest entrance so the bullied hen can move and roost out of reach of the bully.
Pecking at roosting time is normal, especially the lower ranking hens do this. I have a couple of hens that during the night will blindly peck all around them to make space. It's normal.

No kidding! I never saw any of this from my first flock, so the bantam bossiness continues to blow my mind. And yeah, the Omlet is really only for birds that get along. I can try moving the roost towards the door, but it’s been a tough sell getting them to spread out. Everyone wants back corner.

 

[kattabelly]

Exactly. This is the inside of my coop. I do like the divider idea, but I'm not positive how to pull it off in such a tight space.

Thick corrugated cardboard if you did want to try it out now. Fold it so it's the right height to just barely fit wedged between the floor and ceiling, cut a little square in the bottom for the roost you've added to run through, maybe use a bit of tape where it meets the ceiling if you want to secure it better. Not a good long-term solution but it would work temporarily (as a physical fix at least, not necessarily with the chickens...)

You could also try raising the roost bars you've added with something like an A shape frame or upside-down T at either end, and moving them a bit further apart if possible. The bars in the Nestera you asked about are higher, so it's a bit more effort to step off and walk around to peck someone.

This is part of the problem. My bottom bird has made it a habit to go to bed 30 minutes before everyone else. More seasoned chicken keepers (like yourself) would probably let them work it out, but I'm a huge softie that finds it hard to watch (so stop watching, right?).

Living half a mile away from my chickens has its benefits Going to roost before the more senior birds can work too - I have two pairs of pullets doing it at the moment. I can see how your coop space being so small makes it more difficult when there's really nowhere that isn't in sight and more than a step or two out of pecking distance. Even with more space there will probably still be some drama though. I was around last night when mine went to roost and when I eventually decided to investigate the thudding and screeching coming from one coop, I found a pullet roosting on the shoulders of a cockerel who was still stood on the ladder but had tried to jam his head up between her legs to get onto the roost

Just thinking out loud now but if you know other people with chickens I wonder if it would help just to be around theirs for a bit, to get more used to the Ways of the Chicken without it being your responsibility to deal with any problems (and get an idea of what they even see as a problem). I also think if you do plan to try again in future, rehoming an established group rather than chicks might be the way to go. ESPECIALLY if you did decide to have a rooster at some point in the future.