Respiratory Issue - Chicken noob here... just need some guidance.

[Gifa]

Man... and I swore I'd never pay to take a chicken to a vet.

But she's young... and I am nearly certain I can get $25 worth of compost and eggs out of her if she gets better because of it... and I've certainly gotten that much out of her in the year and a half I've had her.

She is my least productive layer though... 182 eggs in her first season, where everyone else is up in the 240-260 ranges.

Oh hey... here's her first poo since I brought her in.

 

[Gifa]

It's great that you can do that--please let us know what they think.

Ugh... All I found out... was that the avian vet would see my chicken for $25... but if there was any kind of care involving any kind of medication that needed to be administered, be it an antibiotic, or a wormer... she could not even talk to me about it... she didn't even have the equipment to do a proper fecal test... there.

So... that was a gigantic waste of time. Talk about disappointment.

 

[casportpony]

Ugh... All I found out... was that the avian vet would see my chicken for $25... but if there was any kind of care involving any kind of medication that needed to be administered, be it an antibiotic, or a wormer... she could not even talk to me about it... she didn't even have the equipment to do a proper fecal test... there.

So... that was a gigantic waste of time. Talk about disappointment.

Sorry to hear about that, they should have told you that *before* you took her in. Did they at least weigh her (that's actually pretty important)? If so, how much did she weigh?

-Kathy

 

[Gifa]

Sorry to hear about that, they should have told you that *before* you took her in. Did they at least weigh her (that's actually pretty important)? If so, how much did she weigh?

-Kathy

Yes, that's exactly what went through my mind... Something I should have been informed of when I called in the first time. My confidence in her ability to do anything other than waste my time was not helped by her question about Saffron's beard being a breed specific trait or not... Good Lord...

And yes... she was weighed... as an afterthought... at my request after she was carrying on an on about how she doesn't advise following advice on the internet because dose measurements depend on lots of factors... bird weight being one of them... and that's when I asked if we could weigh her... and she was like, oh, we could... and then she fished out her scale and had me set her on it... Good Lord!

She weighs 1.938 kilograms... so 4.25 pounds.

 

[Gifa]

Anyway... I am keeping her in tonight and tomorrow night... just to give her a break from the outside temps and allow her to spend her energy recovering... I will monitor her, and keep her well fed and hydrated in the mean time.

 

[Gifa]

I kept her inside overnight... as you can see... not a lot of poop under her this morning.

She doesn't seem to be wheezing and raling anymore... and her clucks and cooing are starting to sound like they should... but she is still a little off sounding.

So I will be keeping her in today to make sure she is eating and drinking properly... I might keep her in a little longer though... I am not sure how I feel about transitioning her from a steady 68 degrees to a 10 degree day and a below zero morning. But I don't want to keep her out of the flock for too long. Anyone have thoughts about that?

 

[casportpony]

Yes, that's exactly what went through my mind... Something I should have been informed of when I called in the first time. My confidence in her ability to do anything other than waste my time was not helped by her question about Saffron's beard being a breed specific trait or not... Good Lord...

And yes... she was weighed... as an afterthought... at my request after she was carrying on an on about how she doesn't advise following advice on the internet because dose measurements depend on lots of factors... bird weight being one of them... and that's when I asked if we could weigh her... and she was like, oh, we could... and then she fished out her scale and had me set her on it... Good Lord!

She weighs 1.938 kilograms... so 4.25 pounds.

Wow... Vets are human and do make mistakes, but weighing as an afterthought, never had one do that, lol, and she had to "fish out" a scale? Oh well...
IMO, your vet is correct about dose advice, *all* birds should be weighed and dosed by weight and the suspected parasite and/or infection. It's true that most medicines have an effective dose range, so many times the the advice given will work, but sometimes it will be too little or too much, either could be harmful or ineffective. With a little practice, anyone that that passed algebra should be able to calculate doses. I'm really lazy, so I used to just rely on what people said, but then I started to think about it when my flock expanded, 'cause no one ever says how much Safeguard, Baytril, Tylan, metronidazole, etc. to give to a 100 gram chick or a 15kg turkey. Then some medicines, like Baytril and Tylan, come in multiple strengths, so knowing how to calculate a dose in mg/kg is very important.

You should send the vet an email with these, they're both veterinary booksets that she might find useful, lol. Most of it is over my head, but I have found lots of useful info in them, like how much fluid a sick bird should have, what temperature a sick bird should be kept at and dosing info for most medicines used in birds.

• http://avianmedicine.net/publication_cat/clinical-avian-medicine/
• http://avianmedicine.net/publication_cat/avian-medicine/

Anyway, back to your hen... If she were mine I would keep her in until she was 100% normal then I'd figure out a way to get her back out to the flock. And while in she would get weighed daily and if she started to lose weight she would be tube fed. I don't have much experience in treating respiratory problems, but I do know that many things can cause them and this is where the vet should have given you the option of having her look at a swab under the scope and/or sending a sample off for cultures and sensitivities.

-Kathy

 

[Gifa]

IMO, your vet is correct about dose advice, *all* birds should be weighed and dosed by weight and the suspected parasite and/or infection. It's true that most medicines have an effective dose range, so many times the the advice given will work, but sometimes it will be too little or too much, either could be harmful or ineffective. With a little practice, anyone that that passed algebra should be able to calculate doses. I'm really lazy, so I used to just rely on what people said, but then I started to think about it when my flock expanded, 'cause no one ever says how much Safeguard, Baytril, Tylan, metronidazole, etc. to give to a 100 gram chick or a 15kg turkey. Then some medicines, like Baytril and Tylan, come in multiple strengths, so knowing how to calculate a dose in mg/kg is very important.

Oh, I never said she was wrong about the dose advice and egg withholding durations... She pretty much said all of the above, and then told us how she shared that she gave Baytril to a sick chicken and got jumped on by veterinarian colleagues from around the world about how she could lose her license for mentioning that... because it is a felony offense or something.

But after she went on about that, the fact that I had to ask her if we could weigh my hen... and the fact that it seemed that the thought had not even occurred to her to do so... and the fact that she was concerned that the scale she fished out from a drawer under the exam table might not be able to accommodate her... and the fact that she did not have the equipment to run a fecal test to look for parasites... I dunno... it just seemed like a gigantic waste of time. And I kind of feel like all I've done is expose my bird to whatever pathogens are being harbored in her facility and maybe given her a name and address that she can pass on to animal control so they can come hassle me about my chickens... which are being kept legally and in respect to every ordinance that exists about doing so. She did tell me that my chicken was the healthiest one she's ever seen...I guess people wait until their chickens are emaciated and covered in maggots before they think to get help... and she did say that she was adorable and well behaved... which she is, and was... but that's not why I was there.

I don't have a problem doing the math... and I have no problems not being lazy. If I have to become my flock's doctor, then... I guess I will....

I am mostly annoyed that she took my 25 dollars to tell me over the course of 45 minutes... that... she is not legally allowed to do anything with my bird... other than check for mites...which, she has none by the way... Any other kind of exam procedure like the weighing, was only done so at my explicit request... after the diatribe about the variables in dosing, and legal foibles... I even asked her to look at her legs for scaly leg mites... also... none... She could have spared me the 25 dollars and gas money to drive to her clinic by telling me that she isn't licensed to treat chickens, and referring me elsewhere.

The vet I take my dogs, who grew up on and interned in a farm setting... tells me this stuff for free in a way that doesn't leave me with the impression that he is an amateur... and he has the equipment to run a fecal test. He just doesn't practice on birds... of any kind... but he can examine, vaccinate, advise us on two dogs in less than 15 minutes for less than $50. For another $20 or $30 and maybe another 5 minutes, he'll even do minor outpatient procedures and surgeries, like small cyst removal, anal gland, and toenail trimmings...

I guess my expectations of an exam have been distorted by the veterinarian experiences my regular vet of 18 years has provided.


The main impression I get is that there is very little information available on treating poultry illnesses because the prescribed cure for any poultry disease is to just cull. In a farm setting, where you know... losing a couple dozen birds a year is not really a big deal because there can always be a couple dozen chicks hatched to replace them, or in big ag, where it literally is cheaper to fire up the old foam machine and cull an entire barn load of chickens at the first sign of trouble, start over... So... I get it...

But... I only have 7 hens... and I don't have a rooster to perpetuate my flock... so... the value of a single bird becomes a tad higher than a single bird in any other scenario... I'm not even considering the novelty pet value of a small urban flock... If Saffron were in her 3rd or 4th laying season I wouldn't be concerned with treating her at all beyond basic palliative care.

I think if people are going to be encouraged to keep small flocks... then a minimum standard of care protocols (worming, antibiotic) needs to be available to veterinarians. Because I have a feeling that were this avian vet's hands not tied up by these bizarre poultry regulations that only make sense in commercial industrial practices... She'd be able to accommodate backyarders like me who also have to abide by animal cruelty/neglect and maintenance ordinances that demand a higher standard of care than way out in the country.

 

[Gifa]

Also... thank you for the links. Who should I make out the $25 check to.

 

[Eggcessive]

You can send me the $25 LOL--no, just kidding! Yes, Baytril which is one of the best antibiotics available is not allowed legally to be prescribed to chickens by vets. It's a law, and there are people on here probably watching to report to the FDA or some federal agency. Many vets do prescribe it quietly, and it works well on bad infections. Did you decide to start her on any Tylan or other medications? It would have been nice (or worth the $25) if she could have tested for the ILT or MG or whatever it is. Your state vet or Dept. of Agriculture can tell you how to get testing done usually. Every state is different. Also, if you check your state thread, you could ask others in Missouri how to go about it. Hope Saffron gets better quickly.