RIR x White Leghorn cross question.

[Egghead_Jr]

I have this cross. RIR rooster, which I hatched last year from imported eggs and White Leghorn hen which I hatched - I bought the eggs from a hatchery. The little pullet hatched December 21st last year. She has some black spots which surprised me, no red at all (disappointing). The baby chicks are from the same parents, hatched Jan 22nd, most are white with one or two having black spots, but obviously still too early. Do you happen to know what colour eggs will they lay?

I'm confused as to what you hatched and when you crossed the Rhode Island Red with Leghorn?

Correct me if I'm wrong but you hatched Rhode Island Reds and hatched white Leghorn last year. The birds pictured are the result of Red over Leghorn. If this is correct I don't see how you'd produce a white pullet with black spots. Are you certain no other cock bird had access to the leghorn hens?

 

[NatJ]

Since they are all hatching white with red leakage, can I assume that my White Leghorns have two copies of the dominant white gene?

Yes

Ok, so back to the original cross placed in the calculator. Where do the all black offspring come from?

Dominant White turns black into white.
It's a lot like blue (turns black into blue) or chocolate (turns black into chocolate) or lavender (turns black into lavender).

You can see that Dominant White affects only black and not white if you look at black-laced-red chickens vs. white-laced-red chickens, or black breasted red vs. red pyle. In each case, the black is changed but the red is not affected.

In the case of the Leghorns, they are probably a genetically black chicken, with Dominant White turning the black into white. So they produce just as many black chicks as any other black chicken would--but some or all of those "black" chicks actually look white because they have Dominant White.

Dominant white is a 'leaky' gene though so that would explain where the reddish down is coming from.

It's called "leaky" because one copy of Dominant White can allow black to leak through. Two copies is more effective at turning all black into white.

White in chickens gets confusing partly because there are several genes that can make large amounts of white on a chicken:
Dominant White turns black into white (no effect on red).
Silver turns red into white (no effect on black).
Recessive white turns everything into white.

And if the chicken just looks white, you can't tell what other color genes it has, until you start breeding it!

 

[Maiahr]

Correct me if I'm wrong but you hatched Rhode Island Reds and hatched white Leghorn last year.

Correct.

The birds pictured are the result of Red over Leghorn.

Correct.

If this is correct I don't see how you'd produce a white pullet with black spots. Are you certain no other cock bird had access to the leghorn hens?

I am absolutely certain. I had no other cock in that flock at the time. @NatJ has an explanation above which is slightly complicated for me but I think it explains the black spots.

 

[Maiahr]

Updated pictures. The young pullet is RIR over White Leghorn, hatched Dec 21st 2020. She has no red whatsoever. Some black splash. The little ones are the same cross (same parents) hatched Jan 21st this year. Out of 10 I have only one that has red splash, several with black splash and the rest are predominantly white. Out of 10 I have 3 boys and 7 pullets, so I am starting to think that not only White Leghorn is stronger gene than RIR in terms of color, but it also determines the gender of the chicks...mostly.. I could be wrong though.
Off topic.. I gave the little ones (3 weeks today) wheat yesterday, mixed with row yolk. They loved it so much, became addicted to it and don't want the starter anymore.

 

[NatJ]

Out of 10 I have only one that has red splash, several with black splash and the rest are predominantly white. Out of 10 I have 3 boys and 7 pullets

What gender is the one with the red?

I am starting to think that not only White Leghorn is stronger gene than RIR in terms of color, but it also determines the gender of the chicks...mostly.. I could be wrong though.

Genetics--yes, the genes for the White Leghorn color are dominant over the ones for the RIR color.

Gender--it's normal to get about 50% each of males and females. With only 10 chicks, it's fairly common to get 7/3 instead of 5/5 or 6/4.

In chickens, the mother determines what gender the chick is (backwards of humans and other mammals), so there is a chance that you have a hen that produces more than half females. But I think it's most likely to just be random chance that you got more females.

 

[Maiahr]

What gender is the one with the red?

Female.

I have a question about one particular chick. On the pictures below I think:
1 - cockerel
2 - pullet
3 - ??????
I have never had such a cross before, so I am not sure how easy it is to sex the chicks.

 

[NatJ]

I have a question about one particular chick. On the pictures below I think:
1 - cockerel
2 - pullet
3 - ??????
I have never had such a cross before, so I am not sure how easy it is to sex the chicks.

#3 looks male to me.

I have never used tails for sexing chicks, but I'm pretty sure that comb says male in any case.

 

[Maiahr]

Thanks. WIll wait and see then.. I have always used tail and wings and they are first to differentiate, even at day 2 or 3. Comb later.
@LikeTurkeys do you have pictures of your crosses?

 

[LikeTurkeys]

Thanks. WIll wait and see then.. I have always used tail and wings and they are first to differentiate, even at day 2 or 3. Comb later.
@LikeTurkeys do you have pictures of your crosses?

Sorry, I don't. I sold all of mine before they were even a week old and the day-old pics of them are mixed in with a lot of other chicks. I could try digging some up though... not sure how helpful it would be. They have mostly yellow down with a reddish tinge to it.

Also, most breeds and crosses can not be feather sexed using the wings. It takes special breeding where you must know the feathering rate of both parents. Tails when they are young are not indicative of sex either.

 

[Maiahr]

So my RIR over Leghorn pullets which hatched in January, February, and May, are already laying eggs - for the record CREAMY eggs (between white and red). 5 out of 7 pullets went broody and hatched, one went broody today, for a second time this year. 1 out of 10 comes this red, on the picture. Absolutely gorgeous. 9 out of 10 are white with black leaks.