Roaming dogs killed my ducks.

[oldload]

I reckon we need a guardian dog, or will soon. We just don't have the time right now to spend with a farm dog. We're getting close to retirement and will be able to dedicate the required time to raise one when we do. Don't get me wrong, I have nothing against dogs. My problem is with people who have dogs and don't respect their neighbors. All of my ducks died in terror because a neighbors dog found a flaw in my gate. It's my fault, I know. I built the gate. But if you own an animal, it is up to you to maintain control of it. Allowing your predators to roam onto other peoples property and kill their livestock is not acceptable.

 

[Rhandi74]

Yes, I do agree. I actually had this conversation with my teenage son because his dog kept running out the front door. He was amazed when I said that if he gets on someone else's property I feel they have every right to shoot him. I then explained would if there was a dog on our property killing our chickens,pig,ducks, or goats. I would have to shoot it and it would be aweful but if we just sat and watched it would be worse.

 

[scooter147]

Oldload,

START FIRING!!!

I know your pain. When I lived out in the "country" free ranging dogs were a constant problem. Growing up we lived on a self sustaining farm (what we raised we kept for our use, chickens, ducks, turkeys, goats, pigs, cows) and if I had a dollar for every dog we shot.......

I tried to be nice. Catching dogs taking them back to their owners and asking them to keep them on their property. But usually in a day or two the dogs were back.

I just started dropping the dogs in their tracks. I absolutely hated it! But I have a responsibility to keep my livestock safe.

I would drag them off into the woods and keep my mouth shut. In a couple days the owners generally came a knocking wanting to know if I saw their dog. My standard response was, No I have not seen it today. (I don't like to lie)

I don't know why people think they can just open the door and let Fido go.

 

[speckledhen]

I don't know who the dogs owners are, or where they live. I don't really care about compensation anyway. Dog owners should know they have a responsibility. Me, I plan to SSS every dog that gets inside my fences from here on out. I still have my chickens to look after and I'm fortifying their enclosure, but I have no sympathy for uncontrolled dogs. I've got plenty of room on my property to put roaming dogs where they belong.

I agree with you and I'm exactly where you are. Now, if it's a puppy that somehow got in and is trying to get out, which has happened, I've called animal control and they did come pick it up, but we have neighbors who start feeding stray dogs, then put a collar on them and think that's the end of their responsibility. They don't vet the dogs, just feed and collar them and then think they have some say in what happens to them if they get on my property and go after my birds.

I have a perimeter fence surrounding about 2 of our over 5 acres, one 330 ft roll of livestock fencing at a time as we could afford it and the U-posts, and a driveway gate that stays shut unless we're expecting a delivery. Within that, each coop has an attached pen, but each flock gets to range inside the perimeter fence on a rotating basis--I didn't get chickens to keep them penned 24/7 and get nothing better than commercial eggs. My entire intent from the beginning was to have a free ranging flock. Even taking precautions, I've had roaming dogs climb the fence. Did I do something wrong? Heck no, I didn't! You can do all you can do and it still may not be enough. I really am tired of everyone blaming the chicken owner when a dog owner abdicates his responsibility. We had dogs for 30 years and they were always fenced-every time we moved, if there wasn't a fence, we put one up. They never were someone else's heartache.

 

[Folly's place]

So sorry1 I agree with everything here, but would like to add that it might have been a wild critter, not a dog. Hope you get whoever it was! How about a game cam? The beast will be back looking for more. Mary

 

[CrazyTalk]

I really am tired of everyone blaming the chicken owner when a dog owner abdicates his responsibility.

I don't think anyone is blaming the chicken owner.

What I'm saying is that your own fences are the only thing you can actually control - there will always be more lose dogs, and coyotes, and everything else. Yes, dog owners should do a better job controlling their dogs - but relying on them to do that is a fool's errand.

 

[speckledhen]

I really am tired of everyone blaming the chicken owner when a dog owner abdicates his responsibility.

I don't think anyone is blaming the chicken owner.

What I'm saying is that your own fences are the only thing you can actually control - there will always be more lose dogs, and coyotes, and everything else. Yes, dog owners should do a better job controlling their dogs - but relying on them to do that is a fool's errand.


I wasn't specifically addressing you, but every time someone has a loss, the first person blamed is usually the chicken owner, whether directly or indirectly. There are people who say every chicken should be in a Fort Knox pen, never free ranged at all. If I had to do that, I'd probably quit keeping chickens. I did my level best to contain my flock on my property by the perimeter fence and their respective pens for when it is not safe or I am not home, and I do expect every dog owner to do the same. No expectations gives you nothing, so we have to expect it and demand it. I don't say just they should do a better job controlling their dogs, I hold their feet to the fire.

 

[Ol Grey Mare]

I don't think anyone is blaming the chicken owner.

What I'm saying is that your own fences are the only thing you can actually control - there will always be more lose dogs, and coyotes, and everything else. Yes, dog owners should do a better job controlling their dogs - but relying on them to do that is a fool's errand.

I wasn't specifically addressing you, but every time someone has a loss, the first person blamed is usually the chicken owner, whether directly or indirectly. There are people who say every chicken should be in a Fort Knox pen, never free ranged at all. If I had to do that, I'd probably quit keeping chickens. I did my level best to contain my flock on my property by the perimeter fence and their respective pens for when it is not safe or I am not home, and I do expect every dog owner to do the same. No expectations gives you nothing, so we have to expect it and demand it. I don't say just they should do a better job controlling their dogs, I hold their feet to the fire.

Agreed on both points

 

[CrazyTalk]

I wasn't specifically addressing you, but every time someone has a loss, the first person blamed is usually the chicken owner, whether directly or indirectly.

I think you're conflating blame/fault and responsibility - people like to use the concepts interchangeably, but they're not really the same thing.

When a dog gets out and kills a bunch of chickens, it is the dog owner's fault, but it is also the chicken owner who is (partially) responsible.



I keep my birds in a couple acres of pasture - the pasture is surrounded by woven wire field fence, with an electric wire on top, and another a couple inches off the ground. This works for the majority of predators, but is by no means perfect. I will (not might) eventually lose a bird to a predator, and I will be responsible for that, but I've made the decision that the cost to perfect my livestock fencing is orders of magnitude higher than the value of the chickens as livestock, and I need to balance that with my obligations to my other livestock.

For people like me (and it sounds like you), going Fort Knox on the chickens simply isn't feasible - financially, or labor-wise. There are side effects to that decision - one must realize that losing birds will occasionally happen. Responsibility is about there being consequence to one's decisions - and about accepting those consequences as being a product of those decisions.


Dog owners who let their dogs run wild are irresponsible, and at fault - they're unwilling to own (or even analyze) the consequences of their actions - and I have absolutely no problem with people putting down dogs that are bothering livestock.

 

[speckledhen]

Quote: If you mean every time, I absolutely completely disagree with you. Depends on the situation. Yes, free rangers take risks, however, I still do not feel that I am to blame if the neighbor's illegally roaming dog jumps/ climbs my fence and kills my birds. I didn't break the law, my birds were on my property where they belong, so except for choosing a certain management style, the deaths of the birds are not on my doorstep except in the most minor way.

Dogs kill chickens when they tear into what I'd call very well built pens. We've all seen that happen if we've read many posts in this section. In that case, the owner of the chickens is NOT responsible. They've absolutely done all they could do. When a pitbull literally chews through the wall of a coop or pulls screw-and-washer attached hardware cloth off a post, that cannot be the chicken owner's responsibility. (Ok, no pitbull sermons, please, they have some of the strongest jaws and pulling power of any dog in this country). There is only so much one can do against certain situations. In my opinion, the person who shoulders the blame or responsibility or whatever word you want to use, is the one who is acting illegally and removing enjoyment of someone's sanctuary, aka their home and property.

I only jumped into this conversation because I've heard literally thousands of remarks that essentially blame the victim, not picking on any one person. You can apply that to other life situations, too, but in my opinion, blaming the victim is never the way to go. JMHO. My mode of operation is to go after the dog owners after the dog is "taken care of" and the birds are safe. The law backs up this course of action in the majority of all locations in the country.

I feel that the only time when a chicken's death by dog is completely my fault is if my bird leaves my property and someone's dog nabs it. No blame will be laid at the feet of the dog owner. That is why we limped along 330' of fencing at a time on a military pension to get that taken care of.

Got the opinion of a sheriff's deputy in Kentucky once when he shot and killed a Rottie who went running past them with one of my friend's birds in its mouth. When the deputy took the dead dog home, not the first Rottweiler killed at my friend's house, the owner was screaming that it was all her fault, that she was to blame for her own bird being killed. The deputy's answer? The only way she was to blame is that she owns chickens and that this neighbor better not retaliate or the deputy would be back to take care of it.