Rooster is hurting hens -- advice?

[Chelsa'sChicks]

5/5(same hatch) of my Sumatra Roos turned hormonal and bad between the 4-5 month age, 2 were initially rehomed at the 3 month stage and the 3 I kept didn't stay with me after 5.5 months.

Wow. That's too bad not 1 was decent. The 4 month stage was when my australorp roo raised his hackles at me and then the space invasion was shortly after. He wasn't aggressive per say about invading my space, but it's not a respectful manner either. After all the stuff I did in previous posts he just walks away when I approach. He only runs at me now (with hens trailing behind) when I have food lol. Thank God!

 

[Chickassan]

I'm going to be the woman with a twenty year old rooster on life support. I don't want to deal with any more hormonal boys, they're nerve wracking cute to a point but nerve wracking.

 

[Then I Will]

5/5(same hatch) of my Sumatra Roos turned hormonal and bad between the 4-5 month age, 2 were initially rehomed at the 3 month stage and the 3 I kept didn't stay with me after 5.5 months.

So sorry to hear that you got an aggressive batch of Sumatra roos, Allen. Which hatchery did you get yours from? So far, none of my Sumatra roos or hens have shown the slightest bit of aggression or tidbiting and we're headed into month 9.

My EE has turned aggressive however, and I've never so much as given a foot of space back to him. He was super Alpha from hatch-day so I should've seen it coming.

As for the OP -- Jamal may have turned out differently in a flock of older birds because he would have had a papa rooster to answer to and older hens to tell him when to jump.

Time will tell you what to do with him, I suspect, as he and the pullets grow into adulthood. Don't worry about separation from the girls causing him more frustration and pent up energies. If he has already become human aggressive, your next step will be to see if he can be gentled.

No matter how much you like him, never pass up the opportunity to replace a bad rooster with a good one.

 

[tuesdaylove]

Wow, this blew up! Thanks everyone for your responses. For much of yesterday and all of today, Jamal was out with the hens and did great. I felt I should give him one more shot and so far, so good, but I have a dog crate ready in case he goes bad again. The hens finally stopped panicking and acting normal around him, and he wasn't interested in chasing them after that. My only concern is one of the pullets is super skinny and doesn't have an appetite like the others, and I was worried Jamal could crush her, but he's leaving her alone for the most part.

I agree, keep him separate from the girls. I have learned from others' posts, that the hen to rooster ratio is 10 hens per 1 rooster or close to that. Even when they reach laying/mating age, I don't think four hens is enough for him, they will most likely get overmated. I had five hens to one rooster and had to eventually separate them. The hens became very fearful of him, to the point of hiding in nest boxes and not eating, like your hens.

I have been VERY lucky so far that I haven't had any overmating problems. My first flock was two rooster and three hens (I was young, didn't know better) and even once the roosters started fighting, the hens weren't overmated. I have one pen right now that's just one roo and one hen, and she's in fantastic shape, I hardly ever see him mating her. Ideally I won't ever have roosters again -- once these all die out, I'm only planning to have hens. Of course, that's probably at least ten years down the road with how young Jamal is!

View attachment 1269860 Fortunately you are in Georgia and in the deep south some folks still raise Game Fowl to fight. Therefore start calling some mom and pop feed stores as they probably carry "Poultry Tie Outs" like this until his hormones settle down. He should be easy to catch in the AM coming off the roosts and tied out near cover to keep him safe in the day. Then placed on the roost once it is dark and everyone has found their place or maintain him in a separate enclosure if that is an option. Also I wouldn't remove the tie out once placed on him as they get wiley and are always going be slowed down by a 6 foot rubber drag line that can get snagged so makes em easy to catch.

I had some serious issues with all my adolescent males from my first chicken. I'm sure they made it to someones crock pot.

I've seen those tie outs, and I will keep that in mind if he acts up again.

What breed were your roosters you had trouble with? I'm just curious. I've had multiple roosters of different breeding over the years. The most vicious was the RIR roos. I have had 1 RIR that was extremely docile, but it was because the other rooster beat the spirit out of him so he was a bottom feeder.
I've been very proactive and careful with my australorp roo as I've read only terrible things about the roos of that breed. I'm not discriminating him just because of his breed either though that's not fair to him and he deserves a chance to prove himself to me.

Don't tell me that about the RIRs... Jamal's got that in him. His mother was said to be pure RIR but I believe she was likely a production red of some sort. I'm not sure.

I've learned though that chickens do not always fit their breed descriptions. Jamal's father was a Cochin bantam rooster. Everywhere I look, I see that Cochins are the friendliest chickens and the roosters are so sweet. That rooster was the meanest animal I've ever known, would literally almost kill himself attacking people, other chickens, dogs, wild animals, anything. I tried to tame him for three years and he never did settle down.

So sorry to hear that you got an aggressive batch of Sumatra roos, Allen. Which hatchery did you get yours from? So far, none of my Sumatra roos or hens have shown the slightest bit of aggression or tidbiting and we're headed into month 9.

My EE has turned aggressive however, and I've never so much as given a foot of space back to him. He was super Alpha from hatch-day so I should've seen it coming.

As for the OP -- Jamal may have turned out differently in a flock of older birds because he would have had a papa rooster to answer to and older hens to tell him when to jump.

Time will tell you what to do with him, I suspect, as he and the pullets grow into adulthood. Don't worry about separation from the girls causing him more frustration and pent up energies. If he has already become human aggressive, your next step will be to see if he can be gentled.

No matter how much you like him, never pass up the opportunity to replace a bad rooster with a good one.

Jamal did spend his first almost four months in a flock with a rooster and three hens, but they were bantams, so by the time he had to be removed he was bigger than them. They used to chase him around and beat him up and I thought maybe he'd learned from that, but once he figured out he had outgrown them, it's like he never learned a thing.

He hasn't run at me or bitten me once since he got these girls, so fingers crossed it won't happen again.

 

[AllenK RGV]

So sorry to hear that you got an aggressive batch of Sumatra roos, Allen. Which hatchery did you get yours from? So far, none of my Sumatra roos or hens have shown the slightest bit of aggression or tidbiting and we're headed into month 9.

My EE has turned aggressive however, and I've never so much as given a foot of space back to him. He was super Alpha from hatch-day so I should've seen it coming.

As for the OP -- Jamal may have turned out differently in a flock of older birds because he would have had a papa rooster to answer to and older hens to tell him when to jump.

Time will tell you what to do with him, I suspect, as he and the pullets grow into adulthood. Don't worry about separation from the girls causing him more frustration and pent up energies. If he has already become human aggressive, your next step will be to see if he can be gentled.

No matter how much you like him, never pass up the opportunity to replace a bad rooster with a good one.

I suspect the same as yours MPC drop shipped from Polk, OH(Meyer's).

 

[Chelsa'sChicks]

Wow, this blew up! Thanks everyone for your responses. For much of yesterday and all of today, Jamal was out with the hens and did great. I felt I should give him one more shot and so far, so good, but I have a dog crate ready in case he goes bad again. The hens finally stopped panicking and acting normal around him, and he wasn't interested in chasing them after that. My only concern is one of the pullets is super skinny and doesn't have an appetite like the others, and I was worried Jamal could crush her, but he's leaving her alone for the most part.



I have been VERY lucky so far that I haven't had any overmating problems. My first flock was two rooster and three hens (I was young, didn't know better) and even once the roosters started fighting, the hens weren't overmated. I have one pen right now that's just one roo and one hen, and she's in fantastic shape, I hardly ever see him mating her. Ideally I won't ever have roosters again -- once these all die out, I'm only planning to have hens. Of course, that's probably at least ten years down the road with how young Jamal is!



I've seen those tie outs, and I will keep that in mind if he acts up again.



Don't tell me that about the RIRs... Jamal's got that in him. His mother was said to be pure RIR but I believe she was likely a production red of some sort. I'm not sure.

I've learned though that chickens do not always fit their breed descriptions. Jamal's father was a Cochin bantam rooster. Everywhere I look, I see that Cochins are the friendliest chickens and the roosters are so sweet. That rooster was the meanest animal I've ever known, would literally almost kill himself attacking people, other chickens, dogs, wild animals, anything. I tried to tame him for three years and he never did settle down.



Jamal did spend his first almost four months in a flock with a rooster and three hens, but they were bantams, so by the time he had to be removed he was bigger than them. They used to chase him around and beat him up and I thought maybe he'd learned from that, but once he figured out he had outgrown them, it's like he never learned a thing.

He hasn't run at me or bitten me once since he got these girls, so fingers crossed it won't happen again.

Regarding jamal being mixed with RIR I would still give him a chance. He's a mixed breed and even roosters from the same hatch or parents can have various temperaments.

Also i did have 1 nice RIR roo once

 

[Sublight]

Agreed with Keesmom on this one. A human aggressive cockerel would never be allowed to stay on as a flock member. And keeping a cockerel alone will not make him meaner. Last fall, I had 2 Buck Eye cockerels. I put one in the flock, but held the other back in a grow out coop by himself, just in case my first pick did not work out. The #2 man was obviously very lonely. When ever I went to tend him or visit him, he'd get all excited. He'd start tidbitting and dancing. I take these behaviors when demonstrated towards a human as pre-aggressive tendencies. But, I think this poor boy was just bored out of his wits and delighted to have any company from any species! He never raised hackles, never demonstrated any sort of human aggression.

I will not tolerate a cockerel who is aggressive toward females. But, if I have a young cockerel who is coming of age, and toys with the idea of "taking on" the human, I will give him an opportunity to mend his ways. If dominance training is effective, he will get an opportunity to join the flock. But, if a couple weeks of training do not curb his behaviors, he is invited to a crock pot dinner.

@Beekissed has many years of poultry experience, and has always given me advice which is spot on. Here's her take on cockerel manners:

I'm going to give you a clue on "rooster speak"....holding him down doesn't mean anything to him. If you'll watch how roosters interact between dominant ones and subordinate ones, there is rarely any, if ever, holding a bird down for a long time when there is an altercation. There is very quick flogging, gripping by the back of the head and flinging him away or getting him down and giving some savage pecking to the back of the head or neck. No holding him down and nothing else. That's a rooster on a hen maneuver, not rooster on rooster.

Because your rooster is attacking you, you are the subordinate in this picture. You are getting dominated by your bird simply because you are walking where a subordinate isn't supposed to be walking when a dominant is in the area. What you never see is a dominant rooster getting attacked by a subordinate rooster unless there is going to be a definite shift in power, at which time the sub will challenge the dom and win...or lose. So far you are losing and not even challenging.

If you want to win this battle, you must go on the offensive, not the defensive. He who attacks first, and is still claiming the area when the other guy leaves it, is the winner. Some people never have to go on the offensive because their movements in the coop are so decisive that they move and act like a dominant and a 2 ft. rooster is smart enough to recognize a dominant attitude and behavior...which is likely why he's never attacked your husband. Most men move more decisively than do women and children and they rarely step around a bird, but walk through them.

Carrying him around also doesn't mean anything to him...it just doesn't translate at all. His environment is that coop and run floor and that's where you need to speak to him, in a language he understands. Because they are quick on their feet and can evade you, you need a training tool like a long, limber, supple rod of some kind...cutting a nice switch from a shrub or tree that will lengthen your reach by 5 ft. really helps in this. Don't use a rake or broom because they are too clumsy and stiff and can put the hurts on the guy when you don't really mean to.

When you enter your coop, walk with decisive movements and walk directly towards your rooster. Move him away from the feeder and the rest of the flock and keep a slow, determined pressure on him until he leaves the coop. The stick will help you guide him. Then...wait patiently while he gets his bird mind around what just happened. He will try to come back in the coop...let him. When he gets a good bit into that coop, take your switch and give him a good smack on the fluffy feathers under his tail if you can aim it well. If you cannot, just smack the floor near him very hard and fast until he hops and runs and keep at it until he leaves the coop once again. Repeat this process until he is too wary to come back in the coop.

Feed your hens. When he tries to come to the feeder, you "attack" him with the switch...smack the wall by the pop door just as he tries to enter. If he makes it inside, pursue him with the stick either smacking the floor or tapping him on the back or the head until he leaves in a hurry. Make him stay outside while you sit there and enjoy watching your hens eat. Use the stick to keep him from the flock..just him. Don't worry about the hens running and getting excited when this is happening...they will get over it. This is for the future of your flock and your management of it.

When the hens have had a good tucker....leave the coop and let him come back in. Go out later and walk through that flock and use your legs to scatter birds if they get in your way...top roosters do not step to one side for any other bird in the flock. You shouldn't either. Take your stick and startle him with a smack on the floor next to him when he is least expecting it...make that bird jump and RUN. Make him so nervous around you that he is always looking over his shoulder and trying to get out of your way. THAT'S how he needs to be from now on in your lives together. Forget about pets or cuddles...this is a language and behavior he understands. You can hand feed him and such later...right now you need to establish that when you move, he moves...away. When you turn your back, he doesn't move towards you...ever.

Then test him...take your stick along, move around in the coop, bend over with your back turned to him, feed, water, etc....but keep one eye on that rooster. If he even makes one tiny step in your direction or in your "zone", go on the attack and run him clear on out of the coop. Then keep him out while everyone else is eating.

THAT'S how a dominant rooster treats a subordinate. They don't let them crow, mate or even eat in their space. If the subordinate knows his place and watches over his shoulder a lot, he may get to come and eat while the other rooster is at the feeder...but he doesn't ever relax if he knows what is good for him. At any given time the dominant will run him off of that feed and he knows it, so he eats with one eye toward the door. If he feels the need to crow, it's not usually where the dom can reach him...maybe across the yard.

If your rooster crows while you are there, move towards him and keep on the pressure until he stops. He doesn't get to crow while you are there. He can crow later...not while you are there.

It all sounds time consuming but it really isn't...shouldn't take more than minutes for each lesson and you can learn a lot as you go along. And it can be fun if you venture into it with the right attitude....this is rooster training that really works if you do it correctly. This can work on strange roosters, multiple roosters and even old roosters...they can all learn. You rule the coop...now act like it. Carrying is for babies...you have a full grown rooster on your hands, not a baby.

I think its spot on. It is all observations that I agree with, I have just never put it together quite like that.
I have 2 roosters. The subordinate rooster never crows, but he is old enough to do so, he just doesn't. If I go outside and the main rooster sees me he will just crow, crow, crow...

The older rooster is the manfighter. We plan on sending him to freezer camp soon. We just don't know when. (Sounds like a good thread idea)
When we do, its nice to have some insight into roosters like this. I will have my teenager, and wife read this, so they get a brief explanation on what we are doing.
We will not walk around him, or the chickens. We will ensure we are always considered the dominant chicken.
Because if this one misbehaves, we may just not keep a rooster anymore, or hatch one out that is of a nicer breed.

The one we have now is just a barnyard mutt.

 

[lazy gardener]

I think its spot on. It is all observations that I agree with, I have just never put it together quite like that.
I have 2 roosters. The subordinate rooster never crows, but he is old enough to do so, he just doesn't. If I go outside and the main rooster sees me he will just crow, crow, crow...

The older rooster is the manfighter. We plan on sending him to freezer camp soon. We just don't know when. (Sounds like a good thread idea)
When we do, its nice to have some insight into roosters like this. I will have my teenager, and wife read this, so they get a brief explanation on what we are doing.
We will not walk around him, or the chickens. We will ensure we are always considered the dominant chicken.
Because if this one misbehaves, we may just not keep a rooster anymore, or hatch one out that is of a nicer breed.

The one we have now is just a barnyard mutt.

My avatar EE roo, Jack was removed from the flock this winter b/c he was no longer able to "hit the target". He was becoming sloppy in his breeding practices. He was a good roo, all round family man, loved his chicks, found good nesting spots for his girls, tidbitted everyone in the flock, even the cockerels! His replacement, Goliath, who is a gorgeous, Buck Eye, is showing promise of being a gentle giant. He has been tidbitting from an early age, dances, and has perfected his breeding skill. This week, I'll be checking eggs for fertility, and it appears that he's getting the job done with a flock of 30 gals! @aart did a thread last fall about her process of bringing a replacement roo to the head of her flock. You might want to check that thread.

Often. the barnyard mutts who have been schooled by the older biddies in the flock, grow up to have excellent manners. IMO, the important transition that you will be facing is immediately after you remove your "man hater". If your cockerel is going to show aggressive tendencies, it will be then, when he is stepping into the "flock master" role, and does not have a roo to dominate him. When I removed Jack, I spent a lot of extra time watching Goliath, and made sure that he knew the boundaries where I am concerned. He has never challenged me.

 

[aart]

@aart did a thread last fall about her process of bringing a replacement roo to the head of her flock. You might want to check that thread.

Wasn't that your thread?
Yep.
https://www.backyardchickens.com/threads/bringing-in-a-replacement-roo-cockerel.1200493/
...tho I did contribute quite a bit, was really just our conversation, I might add an update.

 

[lazy gardener]

Wasn't that your thread?
Yep.
https://www.backyardchickens.com/threads/bringing-in-a-replacement-roo-cockerel.1200493/
...tho I did contribute quite a bit, was really just our conversation, I might add an update.

I thought you started a thread first. Senior moment strikes again! Feel free to update, and this would be a good jumping off thread for others who are looking at replacing an Alpha roo.