Rooster with mass in neck, possible tumor, thymus response -- Marek's

[CinnamonQueen]

Oh no, I hope Derp is okay!

 

[Nambroth]

I have Derperella indoors for observation.

So far I have noticed:

- She is not dizzy, unsteady, or off-balance at all despite her crooked neck;
- Her droppings are very healthy looking, well formed, great color, fully digested, not loose or overly firm;
- She is eating as well as ever and has a strong appetite;
- She is drinking very well (as normal);
- She is vocal, active, alert, preening, acting as happy as normal;
- She displays a normal pupil response to strong light and tracks objects of interest well;
- She shakes her head fairly often;
- Her neck seems to crook to her left closest to the skull, and not lower (near clavicle).

I will consult with my vet tomorrow once they open to get her opinion. I've dosed her tonight with Vitamin E, B-complex, and Selenium in case it is actually Wry Neck and not something more sinister (Marek's). If it is an injury I will consider dosing Metacam as it is an anti-inflammatory. I will consult my vet first though.

One thing I must note about Derperella, for those of you that haven't read her thread, is that she has never been "right". She was a "failure to thrive" chick and actually had wry neck once before. Perhaps she is having a relapse? I wish I knew more about it than I do. Until I know more I will treat for Wry Neck, and possible injury, as if it's Marek's there is little I can do other than make sure she eats, drinks, and is comfortable.

 

[Tomtommom]

It sounds almost like a weird accident, and as derpy as she is... it happens. It's a shame you were gone, now you're stuck with a (temporary) mystery.

I hope you find something out, soon. Not knowing is often the hardest part.

 

[NovaAman]

It took my beautiful Florus a few weeks, but I ended up dosing his water and keeping him locked up. I hope it is easy like that for you, though I did seriously spas out there a few time with worry. Has to be a chicken lover in me... Well anyway, I ended up just using nutri drench in his water, red party light in the coop so he could find the food and water and a bit of added warmth, and a friend... Well, she was broody, so was convenient, he wasn't trying to mate her. Anyway... He's back to head up, doing his roosterly thing, being Florus.

 

[seminolewind]

Thank you Nambroth, I appreciate your clarification. Let me just say right off to everyone here that Nambroth adopted Trousers from me. He was hatched here at my place under a broody hen from eggs that I bought from a fellow BYCer. You need to know that I've spent much time and energy feeling terrible that she had to go through all of this heartache. It is an awful feeling when you are responsible for another person's grief, trust me, as yes, it is most likely that Trousers was infected with Marek's at my place before he was adopted. We have talked it over at length and feel that it makes the most sense, though it has not been identified officially yet in my flock. Let me assure everyone that I am taking this situation very seriously and no one needs to convince me to vaccinate chicks. Hind sight is 20/20 and I now know that it is important. I also know that I can never share birds with anyone...ever...without risking the spread of the disease. In addition, just to clear up any misunderstanding, I am not nor was I ever in the business of selling birds...they are a hobby to me-not a business.
This whole experience has been a real eye opener and I feel that this thread is a great tribute to a very sweet and well-loved roo. Trousers really was a very special bird and I still have his two brothers and 4 sisters and who are still very healthy at this point. I hope that maybe by reading this thread, others may learn from my and other's mistakes as comments are made and questions are asked. There are many of us on BYC that are living with this disease and I think I can speak for most of us in saying that we all want others to know that Marek's can happen to ANYONE- it is a very ubiquitous disease. It is important to become educated about it because I suspect that many people have some strain of the disease in their flock/environment, but just don't know it yet. The two poultry experts I have talked to say that it is everywhere and the best thing you can do is to keep bio-security rules in place, don't bring in birds from the outside, and vaccinate your day old chicks.
Over the years, I have tried to take very good care of my birds and would have never thought I'd have something like Marek's. I have a small flock of 22 birds-17 hens and 5 roos. I really enjoy caring for them, watching them free range around the yard, and pretty much consider them pets. I have tried to follow all the recommendations to ensure happy, healthy birds and have had very few problems within my flock - certainly nothing that ever made me suspicious of Marek's, and I've had chickens for 6, going on 7 years. Five of my girls are almost 7 years old! However, I broke a 'little' rule a several years ago and brought in 3 mixed breed bantam hens from my neighbor, figuring it wouldn't hurt anything since all her birds were very healthy. I knew that bringing in birds from outside was not recommended but wasn't completely sure why. I just thought, what the heck...they're healthy, right?? Well, maybe that was where the virus came from...but then again, maybe it was already in the environment...I don't know. It's important to note that I didn't experience any problems after bringing in these birds. So again...not suspecting Marek's at this point...not suspicious.
Another mistake I made is not vaccinating any of my flock. I just didn't know that it was important even if you only have a small flock. Now I know better. I don't know if i'll ever hatch anymore chicks ever again, as I can't share chicks with others and I don't think I could eat one of my birds if it should turn out to be a roo....just not 'wired' that way....and I have absolutely no room for another rooster. However, if I ever changed my mind, I would definitely vaccinate against Marek's. Live and learn.
So, I guess my whole point of writing and commenting in this thread is to say that if Nambroth had not let me know about this situation, I never would have realized that I had a problem in my flock. Seminolewind pretty much summed this up in that last post, saying that sometimes they just don't show signs and you just don't know it's there. I certainly didn't set out to infect other flocks or cause anyone grief, and am very thankful that Jennifer (Nambroth) has been so understanding in this whole ordeal. Sometimes this disease just hangs out in the bird, waiting for the right time to strike (stress, another illness, etc...), as we have experienced; and sometimes it sweeps right through, resulting in high flock mortality. It seems that it just depends on several factors and the strain of the disease that is in your flock. I hope that others can see that it could happen to them no matter how well they take care of their birds - please be aware, educate yourself, and try to share the knowledge, making sure your sources are reputable. Sorry this is so long but I really felt I needed to share my story.

Cheryl, you are one of thousands who have no idea that their flock has Marek's-most of the time, it is symptomless. There's no way anyone assumes they have it unless they have obvious deaths, and sometimes those deaths never have symptoms.

I can't rehome my roos. Like you I only broke the "little" rule with one pullet.
Your INtent was to give a friend a nice roo. Like the rest of us normal people, we would not wish Marek's on our enemies.

No one is really to blame about Marek's unless they are knowingly selling Marek's exposed birds.

I think we're divided into 2 camps: Those who've experienced and decided to learn more and educate others. And those who don't know anything about it; prevention, symptoms, how common, symptoms, how it spreads, symptoms, life after discovery.

In the last 2 years , I've seen more and more members suffer, learn, and educate and many people as possible. It's a good thing.

 

[seminolewind]

I have Derperella indoors for observation.

So far I have noticed:

- She is not dizzy, unsteady, or off-balance at all despite her crooked neck;
- Her droppings are very healthy looking, well formed, great color, fully digested, not loose or overly firm;
- She is eating as well as ever and has a strong appetite;
- She is drinking very well (as normal);
- She is vocal, active, alert, preening, acting as happy as normal;
- She displays a normal pupil response to strong light and tracks objects of interest well;
- She shakes her head fairly often;
- Her neck seems to crook to her left closest to the skull, and not lower (near clavicle).

I will consult with my vet tomorrow once they open to get her opinion. I've dosed her tonight with Vitamin E, B-complex, and Selenium in case it is actually Wry Neck and not something more sinister (Marek's). If it is an injury I will consider dosing Metacam as it is an anti-inflammatory. I will consult my vet first though.

One thing I must note about Derperella, for those of you that haven't read her thread, is that she has never been "right". She was a "failure to thrive" chick and actually had wry neck once before. Perhaps she is having a relapse? I wish I knew more about it than I do. Until I know more I will treat for Wry Neck, and possible injury, as if it's Marek's there is little I can do other than make sure she eats, drinks, and is comfortable.

Hopefully it will pass. I had my Eddie who was never right, and his brother in the flock tolerated him.
I have Brigette who as an 8 week old vaccinated , who had paralysis, and took 6-8 weeks to recover. So I hope this is a temporary thing

 

[NovaAman]

Well, I just realised that my last post sounded like I was an idiot. DUH... You know about Florus, you posted on my thread for him several times. This is what happens when you wake up in the middle of the night, can't sleep, have a lot of body pain and decide to go on BYC to get your mind off it. (My body pain is self inflicted... I joined a gym and my first work out was yesterday.) Anyway... Hope Derp is just having a wry neck relapse and not Mareks flare up over missing Trousers...

 

[Nambroth]

Well, I just realised that my last post sounded like I was an idiot. DUH... You know about Florus, you posted on my thread for him several times. This is what happens when you wake up in the middle of the night, can't sleep, have a lot of body pain and decide to go on BYC to get your mind off it. (My body pain is self inflicted... I joined a gym and my first work out was yesterday.) Anyway... Hope Derp is just having a wry neck relapse and not Mareks flare up over missing Trousers...

It's all right! I am really so glad that Florus is feeling better. I hope Derp's problem is as innocent as his seemed to be.

 

[Deerling]

Oh, definitely sending good wishes for Derp. Hope she feels better very soon.

 

[Bens-Hens]

Oh, I am so sorry... There is a guy on here from Australia... He's going to rear his new birds in an area his old birds were not. Back dig out the top layer of soil on his old chicken yard, fill in with new soil, and disinfect and let that yard and coops lay fallow for a time... He's got mareks also in his older flock, has the vac order for the birds in his bator now...

About trousers... I am guessing that it'd be best not to hatch any of his offspring if the LL is genetic...?

Oh dear. Yes, I am afraid that is well out of my means, and I am not willing to cull my girls in an attempt to eradicate it. This is something I will have to live with.

At least all of my hens were vaccinated as day-old chicks. Still, I will be watching them.

We decided not to try and hatch any of the eggs from our birds. Too many "what ifs" to make me nervous. Plus, I could never keep all of the chicks here, but I couldn't give them away or sell them because they could transfer Marek's to someone else's flock. That would be really irresponsible.

Hi Nambroth,

Firstly, I am very sorry for your loss. I for one, know EXACTLY how you feel. I am the person Nova spoke of. Our full story is in my signature, but the cliff version, we started with four vaccinated rescue birds, then added non vaccinated birds to our flock. Not knowing that our rescue birds were carrying active MD. We had a hard time and a long process that we have only just finished working thorough. Our first hatch of birds just moved into the coop last week.

Like you, I have been through every link to learn about MD, some conflicts others but I am sure you have found that and learnt to 'filter' it. My best advise is quarantine and a product called Virkon S. I bought it in 50g sachets from my feed store and is certified to kill MD, many others are not, they just say "kills virus's" The sachets we got were $17 at one store, and $14.50 at another, and makes 8l (2gal) of solution.

If your flock is vaccinated they stand a much better chance of surviving, ours were not and only one had the natural immunity to survive it. Sadly, you may still suffer the occasional loss to it but it is manageable, sorry if that sounds cold or blaze' (sp) but it is a better situation than a complete cull, disinfect and start again program.

If you choose to manage this it's best to keep a closed flock and only expand with incubated eggs and vaccinate as day old's, although, as you know you could still sell fertile eggs without concern as it's not passed vertically. You could go to sell chicks, but you would need an incredibly good biosecurity to manage that.

Again, very sorry for what you are going through, a good deed that went terribly wrong.

Sincerely, Ben