Roosters & their own Chicks

[Shadrach]

Apparently it takes 7 to 9 generations before inbreeding may become a problem.
The type of problems that are noticeable such as physical deformities may not tell the whole story.
Propensity to certain diseases, or weaknesses may, or may, not be recognized as the result of inbreeding.

 

[EggSighted4Life]

inbreeding in chickens is different than in mammals with regards to outcome.

It takes several generations of CLOSE inbreeding (brother to sister) before issues pop up.... including things like reduced fertility and low hatch-ability, and reduced vitality/vigor.

Mother to son and father to daughter should be okay. Using line breeding or spiral breeding... some people will never bring in new blood... too much chance for disease and also to throw off the lines you worked really hard to achieve certain qualities.

I saw one poster who had let the chicken yard handle it's own stuff without intervention and never faced *noticeable* issues yet.

But... IMO, having a plan for all the extra boys is absolutely needed in order to maintain your own sense of peace and sanity!

Good luck!

ETA: @Shadrach can you provide links to your 7-9 generation info please? I'd like to read it. Thanks

 

[Sungrove Farmstead]

Apparently it takes 7 to 9 generations before inbreeding may become a problem.
The type of problems that are noticeable such as physical deformities may not tell the whole story.
Propensity to certain diseases, or weaknesses may, or may, not be recognized as the result of inbreeding.

Well that is pretty far - I guess I'm looking at possibly 1, and only if we get hens from the eggs that decide to broody later (or a rooster/mom situation) so thanks - that makes me feel a lot better

inbreeding in chickens is different than in mammals with regards to outcome.

It takes several generations of CLOSE inbreeding (brother to sister) before issues pop up.... including things like reduced fertility and low hatch-ability, and reduced vitality/vigor.

Mother to son and father to daughter should be okay. Using line breeding or spiral breeding... some people will never bring in new blood... too much chance for disease and also to throw off the lines you worked really hard to achieve certain qualities.

I saw one poster who had let the chicken yard handle it's own stuff without intervention and never faced *noticeable* issues yet.

But... IMO, having a plan for all the extra boys is absolutely needed in order to maintain your own sense of peace and sanity!

Good luck!

ETA: @Shadrach can you provide links to your 7-9 generation info please? I'd like to read it. Thanks

I mean, we aren't breeders here -- we have pet chickens that we use for eggs, We are doing new chicks every 2 years (that's the plan) but this is just the first hen who has actually successfully sat on eggs (I guess I don't know that she has been successful yet as they haven't hatched) - As for roosters, I want to keep 1 and we will offload the others to someone who might want them for meat or raising or whatever (we know lots of people who would willingly take some butcher roosters)

 

[Shadrach]

inbreeding in chickens is different than in mammals with regards to outcome.

It takes several generations of CLOSE inbreeding (brother to sister) before issues pop up.... including things like reduced fertility and low hatch-ability, and reduced vitality/vigor.

Mother to son and father to daughter should be okay. Using line breeding or spiral breeding... some people will never bring in new blood... too much chance for disease and also to throw off the lines you worked really hard to achieve certain qualities.

I saw one poster who had let the chicken yard handle it's own stuff without intervention and never faced *noticeable* issues yet.

But... IMO, having a plan for all the extra boys is absolutely needed in order to maintain your own sense of peace and sanity!

Good luck!

ETA: @Shadrach can you provide links to your 7-9 generation info please? I'd like to read it. Thanks

Talk to ChickenCanoe.

 

[Shadrach]

inbreeding in chickens is different than in mammals with regards to outcome.

It takes several generations of CLOSE inbreeding (brother to sister) before issues pop up.... including things like reduced fertility and low hatch-ability, and reduced vitality/vigor.

Mother to son and father to daughter should be okay. Using line breeding or spiral breeding... some people will never bring in new blood... too much chance for disease and also to throw off the lines you worked really hard to achieve certain qualities.

I saw one poster who had let the chicken yard handle it's own stuff without intervention and never faced *noticeable* issues yet.

But... IMO, having a plan for all the extra boys is absolutely needed in order to maintain your own sense of peace and sanity!

Good luck!

ETA: @Shadrach can you provide links to your 7-9 generation info please? I'd like to read it. Thanks

Sorry, that was a bit rushed and may seem a bit rude.
I asked this question on this forum some months ago and the only sensible answer I got was from ChickenCanoe. I did do a bit of research at the time and what little I could find agreed with his estimate.
Apart from that, the chicken keepers here in Catalonia seem to have this as their guide

 

[Ridgerunner]

I don't know where this "Inbreeding is bad for show chickens" came from. Inbreeding is how all chicken breed were initially developed. Inbreeding is how show chicken lines are developed so they can win prizes. Inbreeding is how show chicken lines are maintained so they can continue to win prize ribbons, but after the championship line is created they use certain techniques to maintain some genetic diversity. This mainly involves breeding cousins instead of parent/offspring or siblings such as the spiral breeding technique.

@Sungrove Farmstead you do not get a blank check for inbreeding however. There can be some effects. You need to use your observation skills and reasoning ability. But inbreeding isn't as bad as some people fear.

A standard model used for thousands of years on small farms was to keep replacement hens and roosters from your own flock for several chicken generations. How many generations? That depended on what they saw and the basic genetic make-up of their flock. The more inbreeding (or lack of genetic diversity, same thing) the higher the possibility of problems showing up. These problems could be physical deformity, poor health, poor productivity, poor fertility, stuff like that. The more chickens involved each generation the more diverse the genetics, so the more generations you can usually go before problems develop. If you keep a flock of one rooster and four hens you could possibly see problems in just a few generations. If you keep a flock of 20 roosters and 200 hens like some hatcheries do you could pretty much continue indefinitely.

Part of this working well is dependent on you making good decisions on which chickens get to breed. If you see chickens that have traits you don't want then don't breed them. This could be chickens that have physical deformities, grow slowly and poorly, or that don't lay well. Do you want hens that go broody? If you have one that goes broody and you like broody hens, hatch her eggs. If you don't like broody hens, don't hatch her eggs. We all have different traits we like.

This is getting long so I'll sum up. If you are getting a decent hatch rate, the chicks you are hatching are healthy, and you are OK with their productivity you are OK. If you see declines bring in a fresh rooster and start over. You can keep the same hens.

 

[Sungrove Farmstead]

I don't know where this "Inbreeding is bad for show chickens" came from. Inbreeding is how all chicken breed were initially developed. Inbreeding is how show chicken lines are developed so they can win prizes. Inbreeding is how show chicken lines are maintained so they can continue to win prize ribbons, but after the championship line is created they use certain techniques to maintain some genetic diversity. This mainly involves breeding cousins instead of parent/offspring or siblings such as the spiral breeding technique.

@Sungrove Farmstead you do not get a blank check for inbreeding however. There can be some effects. You need to use your observation skills and reasoning ability. But inbreeding isn't as bad as some people fear.

A standard model used for thousands of years on small farms was to keep replacement hens and roosters from your own flock for several chicken generations. How many generations? That depended on what they saw and the basic genetic make-up of their flock. The more inbreeding (or lack of genetic diversity, same thing) the higher the possibility of problems showing up. These problems could be physical deformity, poor health, poor productivity, poor fertility, stuff like that. The more chickens involved each generation the more diverse the genetics, so the more generations you can usually go before problems develop. If you keep a flock of one rooster and four hens you could possibly see problems in just a few generations. If you keep a flock of 20 roosters and 200 hens like some hatcheries do you could pretty much continue indefinitely.

Part of this working well is dependent on you making good decisions on which chickens get to breed. If you see chickens that have traits you don't want then don't breed them. This could be chickens that have physical deformities, grow slowly and poorly, or that don't lay well. Do you want hens that go broody? If you have one that goes broody and you like broody hens, hatch her eggs. If you don't like broody hens, don't hatch her eggs. We all have different traits we like.

This is getting long so I'll sum up. If you are getting a decent hatch rate, the chicks you are hatching are healthy, and you are OK with their productivity you are OK. If you see declines bring in a fresh rooster and start over. You can keep the same hens.

Yeah - I guess I am look at possibly 1 "generation" of inbreeding - I guess it could escalate to 2, but I'd definitely intervene at that point with a rooster swap or something...this is the first time we will have chickens related to each other in this flock

Also - I mean, this girl is hatching eggs from at least 4 chickens...that favorolle did not lay the green or dark brown eggs she is sitting on Haha - so there is at least a little diversity with which hens they are from - heck, maybe she stole them all, I don't know! I just know she kept stealing eggs from the nestbox close to her, I've probably removed 15 eggs that weren't actually growing that she tried to claim!