Russian Orloffs

[RiddleMe]

Hi guys, this is my third "major lurker" thread, after the Heritage and 20 years threads. So glad I found it, I've been researching and debating what breed I want to get serious about for a year now, had it narrowed to RC RIRs or Buckeyes, as they were closets to my criteria, then found ROs which fit every criteria and are cool looking to boot! So now that I've read the entire thread and am hooked, the one thing I didn't see was a compiled breeders list. Though I remember seeing a reference to a private/"PM me" list... I know there are some breeders in WA, I'm not against driving or shipping. But wondering if any one has recommendations, hoping to find something to work with that has a start on good size/structure, and its hard for me to tell much from pics other than color...

 

[RiddleMe]

I had a question re the tail. In the German SOP posted by MFB it just says erect carriage (for males), but I'm not familiar enough with the terminology to infer exactly what this means wrt the connection. Seems like most game fowl have an abrupt connect, is this the desired look for the RO? Or more of a "J" shape? I see both in the various Non-US club photos and illustrations, even among the show winners between different clubs.

Side note - the UK club standard says "Tail of medium size with fairly narrow sickles. Carriage rather low but slightly above horizontal." A clear example of needing to pick one SOP to follow. :/

eta note re UK SOP

 

[ashandvine]

Taprock- are these all from the same stock/hatch? (thereby same genes and same age?) If so then I have to guess this is a pullet but the truth is that I think slower developing cockerel. Its in the carriage, color and darker tail. I can't be sure either. A couple other pictures might help- shanks, tail and crest. I like the look of this cockerel you have on the left. Where did they come from? Watch out for white in the chest- that's a no no. Nice legs and the toes are good as far as I can tell. The color on the pullet you showed was not the dark red/mahogany color that is desired but its type isn't too bad so far.

I had a question re the tail. In the German SOP posted by MFB it just says erect carriage (for males), but I'm not familiar enough with the terminology to infer exactly what this means wrt the connection. Seems like most game fowl have an abrupt connect, is this the desired look for the RO? Or more of a "J" shape? I see both in the various Non-US club photos and illustrations, even among the show winners between different clubs.
Side note - the UK club standard says "Tail of medium size with fairly narrow sickles. Carriage rather low but slightly above horizontal." A clear example of needing to pick one SOP to follow.

eta note re UK SOP

I haven't looked at the Brit standard in a bit so I am going to ignore that bit and just address the first question. Upright carriage does mean that the bird should look a bit like a J (great visual btw). Back a page or two NCsprout has a link to his birds and in those pictures there is a blue asil next to his RO. If you look at how that bird has a very erect posture/profile, as in not a U shape, you have an idea of what exactly is meant. I often think of them as looking like they are stretching their long necks upwards to peer into a barrel. Hope that helped. Please note that you may also be looking at the difference between cockerels and pullets. Pullets are not as upright.

 

[NCSprout]

Riddle, in reference to your comment about gamefowl and abrupt connect, if you look at Orientals as opposed to American or even Old English, they have less of an abrupt upward flowing tail. It is believed the Orloff was developed using a Malayoid type Oriental. Malay are known for the 3 curves of their body the first from neck to back, second from back to tail and third being the tail itself. The Malay itself is thought to actually be more of a subvariety of Asil, similar to the Kulang Asil in size.
As far as standards go, I personally feel that since the breed was perfected in Germany prior to being spread out into other parts of Europe and America, then that is the standard to use as a base. I really haven't found too much that is contradictory when it comes to basic type.
I would also like to mention that the "private" contact list is pretty much available to anyone, however, I am not going to post personal information of anyone's on a public forum.
Taprock, I know Starbright Farms is in Michigan and I have some of her birds and would recommend her.
Riddle, Rare Feather Farm is in Washington state, and although I don't have any of hers, she seems to be a conscientious breeder. Both of them advertise on this site when they have eggs available.
Also, Taprock, I think we need more close up single pics of the Mystery bird to help determine what it is.

edit for spelling

 

[txori]

Hi guys, I posted a "What gender are my Russian Orloffs" thread in the main Gender/Breed forum and everyone seems to think I have three cockerels. Could you all Orloff experts check them out and tell me what you think?
https://www.backyardchickens.com/t/720935/what-gender-are-my-russian-orloffs#post_9885896

It seems so difficult to tell with a young orloff ... but I've got no experience with chickens at all. If they are all cockerels I'm not sure what I'll do. They don't seem protective or aggressive. They actually fight with each other much less than my RIR hens did. They also seem submissive to my RIR hen, who is always the first out of the coop in the morning and the first to eat any treats that I bring to them. The only other weird thing is they don't roost at all-- just sleep on the floor of the coop.

What do you think?

 

[RiddleMe]

Thanks guys for the response, NCSprout with your description of the three curves I can totally picture what you are saying. Happy to hear it to, I really prefer the look with the curve from back to tail vs the abrupt break in flow.

 

[taprock]

Taprock- are these all from the same stock/hatch?  (thereby same genes and same age?)  If so then I have to guess this is a pullet but the truth is that I think slower developing cockerel.  Its in the carriage, color and darker tail.  I can't be sure either.  A couple other pictures might help- shanks, tail and crest.  I like the look of this cockerel you have on the left.  Where did they come from?   Watch out for white in the chest- that's a no no.  Nice legs and the toes are good as far as I can tell.  The color on the pullet you showed was not the dark red/mahogany color that is desired but its type isn't too bad

Taprock, I know Starbright Farms is in Michigan and I have some of her birds and would recommend her.
Riddle, Rare Feather Farm is in Washington state, and although I don't have any of hers, she seems to be a conscientious breeder. Both of them advertise on this site when they have eggs available. 
Also, Taprock, I think we need more close up single pics of the Mystery bird to help determine what it is.

I'll try for more pictures tomorrow. These 4 birds all came from StarBright Farms and hatched the end of April.

 

[NCSprout]

txori, I would say you have 3 cockerels.

 

[ashandvine]

I posted over on that thread but I agree totally with NC. These are all cockerels. Final answer. Glad to take one off your hands. I really like one of them

 

[desertmarcy]

Hi all, I haven't posted for a while, I've been very busy here. I finally got around to the Orloff pen yesterday and took out all the 2012 birds that I held back, weighed them, made notes. I'll be deciding which of the pullets to breed back to one of my original males. This year's birds were hatched Jan to mid-Feb, so they are getting close to a year old. I am entering 3 of them as a trio in our local poultry club show Nov 17-18. I'd like some feedback, sorry I haven't had time for recent photos, but: I kept back the two best cockerels from this year. One of them has 3 entirely white primary wing feathers, 3 on one wing, 1 on the other. My understanding is we should be breeding away from that, correct? Now, the other thing is, this cockerel is a full 1 pound heavier (and does look bigger) than the other one, who does not have white wing feathers. The heavier cockerel weighs 7-1/4 lbs, the lighter one is 6-1/4 lbs. I know this breed needs work on size, and I won't be using these males just yet--breeding back to my older male first--but which male do you think is best to use? The larger one, and work on getting white feathers out later?

I am disappointed at the weights on the pullets as well, so I will probably use the larger ones, but some of the smaller ones have really nice spangling. I have two weighing at 4-1/4 lbs, four at 4-3/4 lbs, three at 5-1/4 lbs, and one at 5-3/4 lbs. I see the German standard says approx. 5-6 lbs for hens, so most are in this range or close to it. I was actually surprised that the standard size was so light.