Russian Orloffs

[Pozees]

Check the bottoms of the feet for a round black scab. If you see one then it is bumble foot.
While waiting for a reply, I went out and took photos. Yes, it is bumblefoot. I read in the Chicken Health Handbook that they should not be bred since they would be likely to produce more that are susceptible. One of them produced a scab that went all the way through the web of the toe. I wiggled the bump (on top) and pushed the black scab on the bottom, and the whole thing came out, leaving a hole in the foot web that is healed around the edges, no blood. Weird. I have not seen bumblefoot before. The soil is very hard and rocky here in the pens. I think it is really hard on their feet. I have gone back and forth trying to decide which is better, just leaving it bare and rake out the droppings (which dry very fast in this climate) or put in some sort of ground cover and not rake it out as often. I like to compost everything that comes out of the pens. We can't really use the deep litter method here since it is so dry. Everything just stays there, it does not compost. When it does rain, whatever I put in the pens gets packed down, nothing stays fluffy. You would think the chickens would fluff it up, but they do not. The feed stores charge $7.50-$8/bale for straw around here, yikes!

I am also in a very dry climate and just moved my micro-flock into a larger coop (4x8 for 7 layers) and when I moved them out of the two smaller coops they were occupying I found the composting had begun, but it would have been probably another year before I had anything I could point to and call it compost, so it's all going into the compost pile to finish. In the run I just let them run on the dirt, but what I have is like dust, not hard and rocky, and I just rake it out every couple of weeks. They free range at least three full days a week, and an hour or so after work. If you have hard, rocky soil, you might try putting keeper boards around the perimeter of the run and putting in a few inches of sand, screened dirt, decomposed granite, or even shavings. Straw always packs down, I never had much luck with it and have read that most people have had a similar experience of it. You could also try hay, which is unbelievably expensive this year.

Sorry about the bumblefoot, hope it heals quickly.

 

[desertmarcy]

I am also in a very dry climate and just moved my micro-flock into a larger coop (4x8 for 7 layers) and when I moved them out of the two smaller coops they were occupying I found the composting had begun, but it would have been probably another year before I had anything I could point to and call it compost, so it's all going into the compost pile to finish. In the run I just let them run on the dirt, but what I have is like dust, not hard and rocky, and I just rake it out every couple of weeks. They free range at least three full days a week, and an hour or so after work. If you have hard, rocky soil, you might try putting keeper boards around the perimeter of the run and putting in a few inches of sand, screened dirt, decomposed granite, or even shavings. Straw always packs down, I never had much luck with it and have read that most people have had a similar experience of it. You could also try hay, which is unbelievably expensive this year.
Sorry about the bumblefoot, hope it heals quickly.

I have 9 chicken pens and 7 turkey pens. Trying to keep a nice surface in all these runs is next to impossible unless I want to spend a fortune. Like you say, hay is outrageous. Every time I rake out the pens, I remove rocks. But then the chickens dig a hole, and up come more rocks. The chicken pens have only been in place for a little over a year. Sand is $35/yard here; it would take a lot of sand to lay down in all these pens. I do have some semi-composted sawdust mixed with goat manure from a couple of years ago, we no longer have goats. A lot of it got used already, but there is still a big pile. I guess that could be put down in the chicken pens? It will compact, too, but I'd rather have something compacted that doesn't have rocks.
These two pullets seem to be healing themselves, they are not limping and don't seem bothered by their feet and the lumps do not look infected or full of pus.

 

[welasharon]

Check the bottoms of the feet for a round black scab. If you see one then it is bumble foot.
While waiting for a reply, I went out and took photos. Yes, it is bumblefoot. I read in the Chicken Health Handbook that they should not be bred since they would be likely to produce more that are susceptible. One of them produced a scab that went all the way through the web of the toe. I wiggled the bump (on top) and pushed the black scab on the bottom, and the whole thing came out, leaving a hole in the foot web that is healed around the edges, no blood. Weird. I have not seen bumblefoot before. The soil is very hard and rocky here in the pens. I think it is really hard on their feet. I have gone back and forth trying to decide which is better, just leaving it bare and rake out the droppings (which dry very fast in this climate) or put in some sort of ground cover and not rake it out as often. I like to compost everything that comes out of the pens. We can't really use the deep litter method here since it is so dry. Everything just stays there, it does not compost. When it does rain, whatever I put in the pens gets packed down, nothing stays fluffy. You would think the chickens would fluff it up, but they do not. The feed stores charge $7.50-$8/bale for straw around here, yikes!

Once you get the stuff out it should heal although I have to keep mine bandaged till there is no sign at all. I am in hot humid florida. However, being in Florida is good as far as sand is easy to get. I prefer it for my runs as it dries quick and the poop just kinda goes away. Mine got bumblefoot from the wire apron that had an edge turned up instead of down at the door where they came out each day.

 

[Pozees]

I am also in a very dry climate and just moved my micro-flock into a larger coop (4x8 for 7 layers) and when I moved them out of the two smaller coops they were occupying I found the composting had begun, but it would have been probably another year before I had anything I could point to and call it compost, so it's all going into the compost pile to finish. In the run I just let them run on the dirt, but what I have is like dust, not hard and rocky, and I just rake it out every couple of weeks. They free range at least three full days a week, and an hour or so after work. If you have hard, rocky soil, you might try putting keeper boards around the perimeter of the run and putting in a few inches of sand, screened dirt, decomposed granite, or even shavings. Straw always packs down, I never had much luck with it and have read that most people have had a similar experience of it. You could also try hay, which is unbelievably expensive this year.
Sorry about the bumblefoot, hope it heals quickly.
I have 9 chicken pens and 7 turkey pens. Trying to keep a nice surface in all these runs is next to impossible unless I want to spend a fortune. Like you say, hay is outrageous. Every time I rake out the pens, I remove rocks. But then the chickens dig a hole, and up come more rocks. The chicken pens have only been in place for a little over a year. Sand is $35/yard here; it would take a lot of sand to lay down in all these pens. I do have some semi-composted sawdust mixed with goat manure from a couple of years ago, we no longer have goats. A lot of it got used already, but there is still a big pile. I guess that could be put down in the chicken pens? It will compact, too, but I'd rather have something compacted that doesn't have rocks.
These two pullets seem to be healing themselves, they are not limping and don't seem bothered by their feet and the lumps do not look infected or full of pus.

Oh yeah, that would work! Someone on the OTs thread asked about using shavings mixed with horse manure from stall cleaning, and got approving nods on that - any stables nearby?

I didn't realize you had so many pens, you are a busy person! Anyway, with the shavings or sawdust mixed with manure, the chickens are more likely to dig through it, and you can always toss some scratch or just sunflower seed on it to encourage the digging.

One thing I've always wondered about Tucson - do you get more rain, or less rain, than the Phoenix area?

 

[ashandvine]

If you don't mind Desertmarcy, I would like to suggest a couple things as well to help with the bumble issue. I didn't see your post earlier or would have responded. Our feast is this weekend and I am out of my mind prepping.

You might know this, but:
epsom salt soaks are great and I used regular sea salt when I didn't have epsoms
squeeze all the ick out
triple antibiotic ointment and a bandage
if its only one then put them in a cage so they aren't roosting
*throw lime in the bedding*


Alright. So. Who wants to share with me a few more Orloff hens/pullets? I am seriously unhappy to have lost two this week and today the predator came back while I was gone for a couple hours (convenient huh?) and took an Am by the looks of it. BF is going to sit out with a dead chicken in the yard trying to shoot it for me but that won't replace my breeders. Maine might be cold right now but its still pretty And if you come soon I will have lots of yummy thanksgiving like food to share ha ha

 

[desertmarcy]

Oh yeah, that would work! Someone on the OTs thread asked about using shavings mixed with horse manure from stall cleaning, and got approving nods on that - any stables nearby?
I didn't realize you had so many pens, you are a busy person! Anyway, with the shavings or sawdust mixed with manure, the chickens are more likely to dig through it, and you can always toss some scratch or just sunflower seed on it to encourage the digging.

Yes, and that doesn't count all the 4'x4' pens in my condo that I use for cockerels. It is hard to keep up with it all. My neighbor across the street has several horses, I'm sure they would be happy to get rid of some manure. I am a bit leery about using it since most horse people around here feed Bermuda grass hay and I don't want the seeds sprouting and that invasive stuff getting established in my yard. I will have to ask them if it is manure mixed with shavings or straw, that would be a free source of bedding, anyway. It is possible the pullets got bumblefoot from spines, too. I was using yard shredded material in the pens and soooo many of my trees have thorns, plus I put dried up cactus through the shredder also. That seemed like a good source of bedding, the birds could pick through and eat what they want, and then when I finally raked it out, it was mixed with manure and "theoretically" would compost better. I have a hard time getting stuff to compost here since I'm busy enough as it is and can't seem to keep the compost wet and turned enough.

One thing I've always wondered about Tucson - do you get more rain, or less rain, than the Phoenix area?

Tucson historically gets 12" of rain a year, Phoenix gets 8". But with global warming, everything seems to change. I don't think we have gotten that much in a while. The SW has been in a pattern of drought for at least a decade. Tucson is about 1500 feet higher in elevation, so our temps. are 5-7 degrees cooler. But again, our temps are increasing and predictions are for the SW to continue to see hotter weather. We had one very brief cool spell this fall, it got down to just above freezing here, didn't kill the tomato plants, and other than that, I'm out in shorts and tank top every day. I wish it would get colder, the fly population has not diminished

 

[desertmarcy]

...

If you don't mind Desertmarcy, I would like to suggest a couple things as well to help with the bumble issue.  I didn't see your post earlier or would have responded.  Our feast is this weekend and I am out of my mind prepping.

You might know this, but:
epsom salt soaks are great and I used regular sea salt when I didn't have epsoms
squeeze all the ick out
triple antibiotic ointment and a bandage
if its only one then put them in a cage so they aren't roosting
*throw lime in the bedding*

Absolutely don't mind suggestions. The bumps don't feel like they have anything in them, though. They feel a little soft, but not squishy.

Alright.  So.  Who wants to share with me a few more Orloff hens/pullets?  I am seriously unhappy to have lost two this week and today the predator came back while I was gone for a couple hours (convenient huh?) and took an Am by the looks of it.  BF is going to sit out with a dead chicken in the yard trying to shoot it for me but that won't replace my breeders.  Maine might be cold right now but its still pretty   And if you come soon I will have lots of yummy thanksgiving like food to share ha ha

Wish you were closer, even if I take these two bumble-footed pullets out of the breeding pen, I still have 10 nice pullets. Does everybody agree with the Chicken Health Handbook that birds that get this should not be bred? She says offspring are more likely to be susceptible.

 

[welasharon]

I have never heard of not breeding them myself. Odd.

 

[desertmarcy]

I have never heard of not breeding them myself. Odd.

It stands to reason, I guess, like any type of disease, don't breed the more susceptible individuals to avoid getting more of the same. Good for me, I have enough nice pullets, I can afford to take these two out of the breeding pen and just keep them for layers. They are nice looking pullets.

 

[ashandvine]

It sounds like between you and MFB I need to take a tour of the south and come home with birds. The closest breeder of RO is about four or five hours away and then the next was a person who was selling all their birds out of NY not that long ago. Anyone else? Buller? Buller?